Digital noise when streaming audio via USB-B.

[SteffenR]

So I thought, you know about problems with Dante standard? Perhaps I did it understand wrong…

Greetings from germany…

since this topic is related to USB-B I was referring to these problems
but there are DANTE problems as well out there…
different topic, different place to discuss these

Greetings from Frankonia….

[Frank]

Somebody asked “And perhaps they will find other ways to send data to other devices rather than with usb.” So that was my answer… for example with Dante-card. It is bad enough, that also me bought a mixer AH QU 16 for 1800.-€ and especially a laptop Lenovo Ideapad 16 GB RAM + SSD and Intel i7 processor for 1100.-€ to have a perfect combination for multitrack recording and playback with Cubase DAW and then I found out, that this amount brought this USB-streaming problems, which all people here know. After this I bought the used Lenovo Thinpad TP 410 from 2012 and this works! Crazy! But we will not be able to change it… This problem exists and it seems not to be solvable with software-update from side of A&H. Intel will not move a millimeter, because they are not interested in the littel amount of musicians. If we need a working solution with mordern pc’s we have to use for example Dante for SQ5 or another mixer like Midas MR32R with USB. We will not get a solution for QU-series. The A&H SQ and QU mixer are very good in sound, surface, quality, but they have the problem, that they need USB 2 for working multitrack-handling. So… who needs mutlitrack-recording/-playback directly to the DAW, he will have a big chance of problems. If somebody is glad with multitrackrecording und playback with a working USB-stick or harddisk (not every device works, also there you have to know or test, which one is working… the list of working devices is in the internet), he gets a very good mixer. Everybody must know this and decide! Problem is, that the distributors perhaps don’t tell it to the customers (like I has to learn). so you have to hope, that a lot of interested customers read this thread, so that they are able to decide correct, which mixer they want to buy and for what purpose…

@SteffenR -> Fankonia… so you are not a long distance away from me… Ingolstadt 🙂

[SteffenR]

wich was your distributor? Audio Technica?
or… thomann?

[SteffenR]

I found this text inside of the manual of an RME Firewire/USB3 interface…

USB audio is in several ways different from PCI based audio interfaces. Thanks to the high
speed of USB 3, typical problems of streamed (isochronous) data transmission can be circumvented.
RME’s proprietary USB 3 technology makes it possible to achieve performance similar
to PCI Express, IF all participating components work perfectly. At this time USB 3 has got a bad
reputation because many layouts, cables and connectors are designed badly and lower the
maximum throughput. Typical problems are not or randomly detected devices, devices that fail
as soon as data is transmitted, transmission errors and following (as required by the USB 3
standard) the reset of the host controller, guaranteeing a drop out for several seconds.
It is therefore not possible to guarantee reliable and highest performance of USB 3 operation
with any computer and cable just because they claim to support USB 3. The real performance
has to be evaluated on a per USB 3 port (!) and per cable base.

[volounteer]

@SteffenR

How the PC designs the hardware and SOFTWARE make a big difference.
The software is the real culprit.

If the maker CONFORMED NOT FOLLOWED the usb specs the port would not be an issue.
That would include using chips that conform not merely follow the usb specs.
That said, the usb site notes they have little interest in audio use.

Cables that meet usb3 standards should not be a problem.
Are there counterfeit cables being sold cheap?
Then that is not a usb problem but a fraudster selling fake goods.
Connectors are the same as cable. Cut corners and create crap, but dont put a conforming logo on that product to prove it is real.

Read about USB standards and use of the usb logo here
https://www.usb.org/about

[volounteer]

@SteffenR

If the compliance committee
https://www.usb.org/about-usb-if/compliance-committee
is lax on compliance testing then we could blame the USB consortium.

Intel and TI are on the board.
Could there be corruption that allowed bad chips because of that membership on the BOD?

If so I would expect the audio manufacturers to be screaming and yelling pointing out that they are not the problem and it is usb.org

[SteffenR]

I tried to deliver some facts and expieriences
and you argueing again like a defiant child

[volounteer]

@SteffenR

nonsense
I am not arguing at all

I gave facts about how usb and the consortium work and also where the problem mostly lies
vut the truth seems to bother you for some reason.

[KeithJ A&H]

@volounteer ,

Yes, we conform to the USB 2.0 specification.
We also use the isochronous transfer method as mentioned in Steffen’s post.

There can be lots of reasons for noise/distortion on the USB signal, most of which we have eliminated through improvements to firmware and many others which can be solved by tweaking the computer setup to ensure it is suitable for real time audio. (as in this article – https://support.allen-heath.com/Knowledgebase/Article/View/1002).
We are almost always able to help users in getting their system set up for use with Qu/SQ for recording and playback of perfect audio.

However, the lack of full backwards compatibility in the Intel extensible host controller interface when running USB 2.0 devices on a USB 3.* connection has been documented for years.
(e.g. https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/specification-updates/8-series-chipset-pch-spec-update.pdf)
Intel also made their controller specifications open for use without licensing fees, meaning it is used with other chipsets too…

So as you have pointed out before, we have ‘baked in’ a hardware chip, but this does indeed conform to the USB 2.0 standard and will work perfectly with a computer/connection that also conforms to this standard.

The reason we are not constantly pointing fingers or trying to shun all responsibility is because that doesn’t help a user who is experiencing the issue.

Because there is no single answer then, and so many different setups are possible, it is always best to contact us using support.allen-heath.com if you experience this or any other issue and we will do everything we can to help.

Thanks,
Keith.

[volounteer]

@KeithJ A&H

Thanks for telling us. Why keep that a secret here for so long?

I will still look at the usual suspects , but it is also looking like the usb.org honchos do not really care about audio use.
And, with intel and TI on their board, may have been willing to cut corners on their testing.

That said, I do know that many problems are caused on the PC side.
I had a very long multipage document on how to fix various versions of windoze to make audio work right.
Until those are done I would still look at the pc side as the cause before AH or intel chips.

[JJ]

Who do i contact directly at A&H to troubleshoot?

I have a Qu-24 connected to a

2020 Macbook Pro 13” 2.3 i7 32gb Ram 1TB SSD

I used several different cable and cable combinations and converters etc and still get distortion at random times during my worship recording. Its a pain because i have to post process these issues and some of them cannot be fixed.

I need a solution, I have too much invested in A&H!!

[Alex A&H]

Hi @JJ ,

Please go to support.allen-heath.com to start a support ticket and one of the team can help you troubleshoot this.

Thanks
Alex

[Stocky]

SOLVED!

Thanks to this forum I was able to save myself a lot of money, because I was on the verge of selling and buying new gear.

I’m running Dell G3 laptop and bought QU-24 second-hand, and experienced the terrible noise on USB B playback.

Simply updating the Firmware from 1.90 to 1.95 has fixed the issue immediately. 🙂

[Ritit]

Hello,

As I’m reading in this forum, the USB trouble (noise in steaming and recording) is know by team support. I had send a mail last week in French support but no answer ! I filled the survey file, and no answer too, I can’t send a ticket to UK support! it’s need a log ! What’s log is?
So I sure you can help me (MacbookPro, Catalina 10.15.6) the problem is about USB3, my surface is (QU16,Firmware 1,90).
Is the firmware update fixed the problem for MacOS too? is the following MacOs will be compatible after firmware update?

Thanks

[volounteer]

@Ritit

you need to tell us what your problem is in detail
not complain about customer support

what about USB3 ?

The problem is most likely USB3 itself which much AH gear apparently cannot handle

[Author]

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