Digital noise when streaming audio via USB-B.

[Ritit]

Re,

Thanks you Stocky for your idea, after updating firmware from 1.90 to 1.95, trouble is fixing for Mac OS too, I will be trying the last MacOS BigSur 11 ASAP with other laptop and I’ll tell you back.

Have a good week and thanks a lot to all…

[SteffenR]

The problem is most likely USB3 itself which much AH gear apparently cannot handle

as many times mentioned…
some USB3 ports can’t handle audio in general without up to date drivers
and often these are only available for recent Windows versions
and some of the USB3 chipsets just work…

since Apple is responsible for all hardware support in their devices nobody can tell exactly what happens to the MAC platform in the future
the problem is the same, there are bugs in hardware that need to get patched
normally Apple is patching this very soon after finding bugs or changes hardware components in the next generation of a device

@noel
Catalina still makes some trouble with many audio related devices or applications
the changes introduced to Catalina make a lot of problems, not even in the audio world
and I doubt that Big Sur will solve them

[volounteer]

as many times mentioned

AH apparently has trouble with most usb3 devices. YMMV
does not matter who is at fault, finding a working usb3 is like a needle in that proverbial stack of hay.
and while you might find one that works, devices that dont work wont ever work.
will everybody fix things so the next generation all plays nice in the usb sandbox?
dont know cant say, but not holding my breath nor making long term plans based on that happening.

[SteffenR]

what should I say? should I really repeat everything?
it is possible to get many USB ports to function

How much devices(computers) have you tested personally?
On how many desks did you tried them?

YMMV
I guess your personal experience is very limited, regarding to modern computer systems since you are still using WinXP
for which most USB drivers don’t get updated since more than ten years…

[volounteer]

@SteffenR

My computer experience is extensive.
From 1130 and 7090 before IBM/360 and then through 370
next micros using z80 and so on

I still use 98SE XP 8.1 and 10

It has been all downhill from 7 as microslop turned their opsys into a social media toy that steals your personal info

might be small sample statistics but I do know that from 8 to 10 all experience has been 100% bad

[Frank]

The more I think about it and research it, I come to the conclusion that USB is not or cannot be the solution for a sufficient audio stream in the long run. Especially with higher channel numbers. The future will be LAN which has sufficient bandwidth and compatibility. At the moment, the Dante protocol would be a working way. If I were to buy a new mixer, I would always go for one that allows the installation of a Dante card as an audio interface. With that the QU series unfortunately falls flat. But in the SQ series this is possible (unfortunately not cheap, but at least it works properly). Otherwise there will be no solution for mixers programmed and designed on the hardware side according to USB 2.0 together with real USB3 ports of modern PCs. And Dante can do a lot more.
So conclusion: If you want working with audio streaming in or from a DAW, then buy a mixer with a Dante card or keep on looking to see if you can get something compatible by tra and error with the multiple tips here in the thread (I have A&H QU 16, with an old Lenovo Thinkpad TP 410 with pure USB 2.0 ports. That works). Or do without audio streaming to A&H devices that “only” specify USB 2.0 as the standard (thus actually all). I do the multirecording things there with a Sandisk Extreme 32 GB stick. I leaved USB-Audio-Streaming to the PC/DAW (or could do it with my good old TP410 with SSD) and I would buy a SQ5 with Dante-cared, if at some point there would be a need to absolutely have to use it.

[Hugh]

Over the past 15 years I have benefited greatly from the advice I have received from the RME teck staff. 10 years ago I invested in a RME UFX interface up grade and the official position of RME at that time was as follows: ” The small packets of < 0nes and zeros > contained in digital audio are best managed with fully compliant USB 2 devices, we see no technical advantage in USB 3 for digital audio recording connectivity”. This has apparently also been A-H ‘s official past and present position. The obvious problem with todays , speed crazy, computers that have much broader market demand for USB3 speed than the needs of digital audio recording pretty much forced RME to offer a USB 3 model upgrade to their UFX.
In a recent discussion with the Glyph HD teck staff I was assured their USB 3 Studio model would perform as well as my 5 year old Glyph GPT50 USB 2 model that it replaced. The problem turns on the difference between the digital transfer load between 16 24/96K tracks with the SQ drive direct to a hard drive vs up to 32 tracks streaming up to 32 @ 24/96K with USB 2 “B” output to todays USB3 compliant DAW loaded computers.
I have a complete Digigrid/Waves LV1 project studio that offers bullet proof CAT6 connectivity for up to 64 channels.I do not see much if any future need to accommodate more that the 16 channels for live gig SQ recording capture I presently use with the SQ drive and my Glyph HD. However in the event I ever do I will put a Waves card in my SQ and hook up my Waves server and DAW and I have a portable CAT6 connected studio. There is a logical, pragmatical, common sense rule that demands matching the tool to the task. We might well remember that when we are planning audio gear investments.
Hugh

[Frank]

Hi Hugh,

interesting what you write. I took a look at the RME Firefase UFX +. Of course it costs more than 2000 € and I’m not sure as a layman whether this will help us with our USB2 to USB3 problem, for example with the A&H QU 16. Would I somehow loop the RME Fireface between mixer and DAW? And if so, how?

And do you prefer the Waves protocol over the Dante? Where do you see the advantage? Because the SQ series can process both cards…

[Hugh]

My Project studio was based on a UFX interface until I elected to switch to a Digigrid/Waves LV1 system 4 years ago. Perhaps an Older USB 2 UFX could interface with either a QU or SQ: that is a question for Keith and well beyond my pay grade. However the ability to go gigging on the road with a 24/96K SQ5 that was in the sonic quality ball park with my digico’D” pres in the studio was a no brainer for me. I never need more than a dozen multi-track stems for the genre I work with so the limitations of the SQ drive direct to my Glyph USB 2 or3 HD present absolutely no problem for me. However in the event I ever do see a need to upgrade to a more complex capture the fact that I have all of the requisite ancillary Waves gear would direct a Waves card buy in a New York second. Their cat6 connectivity is absolutely bullet proof. Both the Dante & Waves expansion cards will require additional investment for requisite ancillary gear. If you have to use the USB2 “B” direct outputs on any A-H desk get a DAW loaded computer with USB2 inputs. Otherwise you are trying to put square pegs in a round hole.
Hugh

[WaihekeSoundie]

So I made a recording last night of a gig I was doing.
3 bands- I just started and left the DAW recorder (Reaper) running while I focused on the mixing.
I was using a mac Pro mid 2014 with my SQ5. (USB 3).
The mixer ran smoothly and on playback of the recording the first couple of bands are fine but then well into the recording I see massive spikes of “white noise” erupt on many channels simultaneously. I also see Reaper making New takes.
I had not seen this before on my laptop but I have only made a few test recodings and 1 shorter (1hr) recording previously.

I guess that this the USB 3 problem.
What if I use an older USB 2 machine? Would I get the same channel count?

Or if I record with a SQDrive (assuming the drive is compatible) it sounds (reading this thread) that I won’t see this problem?

Disappointing ..

[MarkPAman]

I’d expect a USB problem to show up relatively soon, certainly not only after more than an hour. Maybe you’ve got to the largest file size your laptop (or Reaper) can cope with? How long into the recording is the problem?

[WaihekeSoundie]

Hi Mark,
Thanks very much for your reply. Your comment made me think about file size.
It got me thinking — the recording was 2.5hrs long and I have just realised would have made the laptop I was using become very low on disk space.. I’m going to assume it was that for now and do some more testing..

I had not seen any issues before this time.

[volounteer]

@WaihekeSoundie

That could be the problem.
Best to use a separate HD that has been completely totally cleaned up checked and verified for serious audio digital recording.

[Tohwe]

I mix for FOH on the QU24. for live streaming I have tried (and continue to work with) the following options.
Method 1, I send all channels to the computer. On the computer I mix the audio using Reaper. it is then sent to the streaming software, (OBS).
Method 2, I use a tablet to mix the streaming audio to mix7/8. This is patched to ch17/18 o the usb-b in out. This is sent to the computer for streaming.

The problem is this noise issue. It just randomly pops up. I am using the latest firmware. I have attached a sample audio of the noise raandomly starting and stopping.

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[volounteer]

@Tohwe

We use a Qu32 and send the mix78 via a presonus interface to OBS with no noise problems.
We considered using usb but decided against that option.

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