[cornelius78Participant]

Thanks for the clarification Nicola. I was confused due to certain parts of the documentation (user guide, DAW control setup notes, DAW control Driver and TCP/IP driver sections of the website, Midi Protocol pdf) claiming a combination of

“The Qu mixer can stream audio and send MIDI messages to and from an Apple Mac or Windows PC computer via the rear panel USB B port. This lets you work with a DAW (Digital Audio Workstation) running on your computer.”

and

“DAW Control is available only for Apple Mac computers. It is not available for the Windows PC.”

Then there was dhak’s experience of using a Qu to control a DAW on Windows.

For me, the confusion came from the fact that the ability to control a DAW via midi (a feature which I thought could be sensibly marketed as “DAW Control,”) is available on both platforms, whereas the special driver that translates midi messages to Mackie Control\HUI, which also happens to be called “DAW control” is only available on the Mac platform.

What you’ve said makes sense:
Multitrack streaming: OSX and Windows
“Controlling a DAW” via vanilla midi messages: OSX and Windows
“DAW control” (special driver which translates midi messages to Mackie Control\HUI, which allows for “Controlling a DAW” using Mackie Control\HUI:) Mac Only.

So I suppose the real question for the OP is “Can Cubase on Windows be controlled via Midi?” If yes, the the Qu can control it. If Cubase can’t be controlled by Midi but instead requires Mackie Control or HUI, the the Qu can’t control it (on Windows, but it can if Cubase is running on a Mac.)

[cornelius78Participant]

You’ll need to distinguish between fx and processing. When people talk about fx they usually mean the built in fx racks that can be used as inserts on individual channels/mixes or in a send-rtn configuration, and include things like reverb, delays, modulators etc. The FX racks’ returns returns CAN be recorded to the computer. You’ve got 32 channels you can stream to the computer, which by default are set to be the 32 mono inputs, but p61 of the manual shows how you can change them from mono inputs to include fx returns (or mixes, or stereo inputs etc.) Basically you can route any combination of mono inputs, stereo inputs, fx returns, groups, mixes, mains, mtxs and pafl to the PC. On the qu32 there’s a total of 72 sources you could route to the PC, but you’ve got a maximum of 32, so you just have to pick and choose which of the 72 are going to be in that 32.

When people talk about a the console’s processing they generally mean the individual channels’ own processing (eq and comp etc.) You CAN record tracks to the DAW with this processing switched in. Instead of tapping from the “insert send” position of the signal (which is the default, and won’t include eq and comp,) you can tap from the channel’s “direct out.” It sounds counter-intuitive, I know, as on most analogue desks the DO is pre any eq, but p28 of the manual shows how you can move the direct out tap’s position in the signal chain. If you adjust it such that the DO is post eq, post comp, and set your sends to the PC to be tapped from the “direct out” rather than the “insert send,” you’ll end up with channel’s eq and compression being sent to your PC. The only caveat is the direct out position is global for all channels, as is the insert send vs direct out option for sending input channels to the PC.

The A&H website has a pdf with setup instructions for a number of DAWs, including Cubase, but again they claim it’s Mac only. There’s also a document on the midi protocol too which is probably worth reading.

[cornelius78Participant]

AFAIK multitrack audio streaming (32 channels) via USB is supported on both Mac and Windows. ATM DAW control from the Qu is only supported on Mac.

The 32 faders on the Qu32 can be used to control 32 faders on your DAW using midi over USB/TCP, if your DAW is running on a Mac. There is a driver available on the A&H website to convert the Midi messages sent by the Qu to Mackie Control or HUI, which can be communicated alongside the original midi messages if your DAW prefers that, however, all of this requires a Mac. To quote from the A&H website: “DAW Control is compatible with Mac only.” It’s only the multitrack audio streaming that’s supported on Windows, not DAW control.

Edit: just going by A&H’s website and documentation it claims in a few places that DAW control is for Mac only, but dhak appears to have DAW control in win7…hmm…

[cornelius78Participant]

One option is to wait for v1.5, which apparently has DCAs for the whole Qu range.

As the Qu16 doesn’t have dedicated subgroups, Plan B is to use your mixes as subgroups, and return them to the stereo inputs.

Un-assign ch 1-16 from LR.
Assign your vox channels to a stereo mix (eg mix5-6) post fader at unity, effectively using the mix as a subgroup.
Assign your drums to another stereo bus (eg mix7-8.)
Run cables out of the physical XLR outputs of these mixes into the TRS sockets of two of your stereo inputs (eg mix5-6 to st1, mix7-8 to st2.)
St1 is now your vox master, St2 is now your instruments master. Ensure St1 and St2 are assigned to LR.
As long as you’ve got channel faders up, the mix5-8 masters up, the St1+St2 faders up and the LR fader up you should hear sound.

Be aware of your panning: you have to do it in the mix rather than the LR pan.
Be aware of where your fx returns are routed and whether raising St1/St2 will affect the dry sound or both dry and wet sound.

HTH

[cornelius78Participant]

Depends on the cable. If it’s a proper AES/EBU cable (110 Ohm impedance,) you should be fine for several hundred feet. If it’s a generic mic cable (with a different impedance than what the AES sockets are expecting,) they tend to be fairly hit and miss, and people tend to not be able to get more than a few meters out of them, (something to do with the different impedance causing the signal to be reflected back inside the cable, resulting jitter/clocking issues, and ultimately errors that result in loss of sync.)

[cornelius78Participant]

The two mono groups option could kind of work, but it could be awkward to have to use the faders to pan a mono channel between the two groups to get your stereo image. What you could do is use a stereo subgroup (not routed to LR,) then have a couple of spare input channels set their source to either side of that subgroup. You could then compress each of these channels separately, and route them to LR, panned hard left and hard right. IIRC as of 1.3 you can do this without needing to physically go out of the AR and come back in, so everything stays in the digital domain.

[cornelius78Participant]

As chris93 said, it’s not to do with the physical outputs/routing, it’s to do with the DSP: the processing on those groups still takes DSP power, regardless of whether you route them to a physical output or not.

Any bus that is only a sum and doesn’t have processing (peq, comp etc), eg an fx send, counts toward the 30 bus limit, but not the 20 mix output limit. Any bus which sums AND has processing, eg an aux/group/main/mtx, counts toward the 30 bus limit AND the 20 mix out limit.

[cornelius78Participant]

P35 of the manual shows the folder structure for stereo playback from qu-drive for your backing tracks. P36 goes on to the structure for multitrack playback.

A couple of things to be aware of: while you can mix input sources from local preamps, remote preamps and USB playback, you can only have one usb global source; all your usb sources have to be coming from qu-drive or all from a computer, you can’t have some usb sources from qu-drive and others from a computer st the same time. Another thing is that you can’t playback from qu-drive and record to qu-drive simultaneously. To get around this, you can playback from qu-drive and multitrack record to a computer, or vice versa.

[cornelius78Participant]

Sorry, my mistake. The manual mentions the direct outs feeding the usb bus, so I thought the direct out trim levels would also affect the levels sent to the bus. My apologies.

[cornelius78Participant]

@dave.
As dpdan said, you’re not forced to use all local or all stage, you can do a mixture of both. They’re not completely freely assignable though, in that the preamp#-channel# is fixed. Ch1 always has to be fed by preamp1, ch2 by preamp2, (whether preamp1 is in the back of the qu console or on the stage box is up to you.) What you can’t do is assign preamp1 to ch7, preamp2 to ch4, preamp12 to ch15&16, as you might if you wanted to run ch15 to monitors with certain processing and ch16 to FOH with different processing. To achieve this you’d need to use a y-split before the preamp, or a GLD/ilive.

@dpdan, page 14 of the manual says qu16 uses the AR2412’s preamps 17-22 for st1-3.

[cornelius78Participant]

The direct out trim changes the channel’s level (post gain,) that is sent to qu-drive/computer connected via USB-b port for multitrack recording. It doesn’t affect LR/mix1-10.

[cornelius78Participant]

IIRC the (default: constant Q) GEQ is 1/3 octave per band. The PEQ can do 1/9th of an octave, which might be better for notching feedback. There are multiple types of GEQ selectable though, including the “Proportional Q,” which narrows the Q (beyond 1/3 octave) the more severe the boost/cut. Both PEQ and GEQ can operate on the same bus simultaneously. Select a bus, go into the processing screen and the GEQ tab, and press the “?” on the touch screen to read about the different types of GEQ. This also works in Editor if your not in front of the GLD ATM.

[cornelius78Participant]

The GLD has 8 FX units which can operate simultaneously. The can be configured in a mono/stereo send-return configuration (Setup-Config-Mixer config,) or as inserts on individual channels/buses (FX-FX engine-Back Panel.)

By default in the LR template, the (stereo) return channel strips for send-return configured FX engines are on layerC of bank2, but as with anything, you can re-arrange them using Setup>Control>Strip Assign.

In terms of routing, they’re treated like input channels, in that by default they’re routed to LR and assigned to the auxes prefade, but not assigned to the groups. Like input channels, you can un-assign them from LR (select LR, press the routing button, FX return tab) and re-assign them to groups (select group-routing button-FX returns tab, or, select the FX return-routing button-group tab.) You can take them in or out of auxes using the “Mix” buttons, either on the aux master or the fx return, the same as you would input channels. You can also assign them to DCAs the same way you would input channels.

In terms of processing, the FX returns only have a peq. If you want more processing (eg you want to compress the return) you can assign the fx return to a bus and use the bus compressor, and/or you can change a pair of input channels 1-48 to source their input not from physical inputs, as is their default, but from the FX engine outputs, effectivly giving you hpf, gate, peq, comp and delay on those returns.

Play with Editor to get a better idea.

HTH

[cornelius78Participant]

+1 to pTorak. P61 of the 1.4 user guide shows the block diagram. The tap point for multitrack recording (for inputs) is set at the insert send point: post preamp (gain and polarity invert,) but pre everything else (insert, hpf, gate, peq, comp and delay.)

[cornelius78Participant]

Only speaking on behalf of myself, I’m certain there are other “clever types” out there: I’m not familiar with the song, so I don’t know exactly what sound you’re going for, all I can suggest is maybe boost the gain to get it closer to distortion, and perhaps add some slightly aggressive compression (>4:1) with high-ish MUG, just be careful what you’re sending to monitors. I did some quick Googling (how did that become a verb?!?) and it seems it’s a commonly asked question for cover bands, and common solutions include using specific mics and/or specific external fx units with certain presets. They all had the hi/low rolloff going on though. One guy actually wired an actual telephone handset into his console for use in the studio. Good luck with it.

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