Random popping in SQ 6

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This topic contains 44 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of volounteer volounteer 1 day, 23 hours ago.

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  • #92872
    Profile photo of churchingnv
    churchingnv
    Participant

    Good afternoon,

    I’m getting a loud popping noise (a quick spike in the ouputs, almost the sound you get when you mute a cheap desk microphone at the base). All of the inputs are muted, so I cannot isolate this. Wondering if it’s a known issue. Thanks!

    Chris

    #92873
    Profile photo of Showtime
    Showtime
    Participant

    Sync errors? Is it single console or multiple console setup?

    Check clock settings.

    #92875
    Profile photo of SteffenR
    SteffenR
    Participant

    All of the inputs are muted, so I cannot isolate this

    this doesn’t mean that no sound is going to the outputs
    can you see it in the metering?
    you likely directly patched an input to an output or something similar

    #93224
    Profile photo of BradWalker
    BradWalker
    Participant

    I will add to this thread because I think the problem I am having with our SQ5 is the same issue.

    Unit was purchased new in January of 2018.
    Fader Version: 0.35
    Firmware Version: 1.5.0 r3883
    Build: Release

    Environment:
    – SQ5 has full DEEP plugin suite installed.
    – System runs at 96KHz, often with one DX168 attached.
    – The mixer is assigned a static IP address and connected to a TrendNet POE+ switch that also has a blackmagic switcher and some Vaddio camera extenders attached to it.
    – Sometimes a Panasonic PTZ controller is also connected.
    – We use a Ubiquiti AmpliFi wifi router for iPad control (also connected to the TrendNet).
    – SQ5 lives in a 12 RU on top/12 RU in front mixer rack, with a SurgeX UPS and another Surgex PDU providing AC protection.
    – We regularly use multi-band compression / dynamic EQ on inserts, a variety of compressor types on different inputs, and phantom power on local and S-Link mics.

    All was quiet until after V1.5 firmware was updated in mid-May, then the occasional random pop that lights up all meters started happening.
    – Sometimes it doesn’t happen for a whole hour.
    – Sometimes it happens 5 times a minute.
    – It varies in intensity (level) from distracting to forcing outboard speaker DSP limiters to clamp down hard.
    – We have reinstalled firmware twice since, the most recent was yesterday 07-08-2020.

    It happens with or without:
    – a DX168 connected to it via S-Link;
    – any local inputs connected to it;
    – all channels (inputs, outputs) open or muted;

    Other observations:
    – even with all inputs muted, the pop will occur and be heard on unmuted outputs.
    – but any muted output prevents the pop from reaching the destination.
    – pop is recorded on USB SQ-Drive.
    – pop is heard on headphones.
    – pop is heard and recorded on blackmagic (Matrix 3 to local A and B outputs)
    – pop lights up every meter on Meters tab when I’ve happened to have that displayed and it happened.
    – AudioEngine BT receiver and Shure Axient wireless are mounted in rack below mixer, but pop was observed with both turned off.
    – We updated a client’s SQ6 about the same time, but had no problem with popping in their system.

    Things I haven’t tried, but not sure it would matter:
    – running system at 48KHz;
    – disconnecting all physical cables from mixer and see if it pops on headphones or meters;
    – create a “clean scene” to determine if some DEEP plugin setting is driving the problem;

    Attached picture shows the rack. All is the same as now, except we added one more Vaddio next to the existing one in the picture. it’s a compact setup, but the cabling is all good quality, and we had no issues before the V1.5 firmware upgrade. We really like the new features in the firmware upgrade, thanks for listening to us! But this issue is a serious problem we won’t be able to mitigate much longer before it becomes an issue with a client.

    My gut feeling is it’s internal to either the firmware or a hardware problem (God forbid!).

    Hopefully this helps the troubleshooting, or triggers a thought on what the issue could be or where to test next.

    Thanks for your help!
    Brad

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    #93228
    Profile photo of SteffenR
    SteffenR
    Participant

    can we get a recorded pop?
    small wave file with 15-20s should be enough

    – running system at 48KHz;

    this is not possible, SQ runs always at 96kHz just the interfaces get sample rate converted

    what is your sync setting? Is it green?

    #93245
    Profile photo of churchingnv
    churchingnv
    Participant

    Yes! the above describes my situation (in much better detail, thank you.) I managed to record it today while I am working int he sanctuary. it happened twice, about 15 minutes apart. Same thing during our second service last Sunday. I noticed that the pop is only in the right channel. This is the recording straight off the board via SQ drive. It is very loud in the speakers when it happens, but I’ve noticed the gain on the recordings is usually much lower. This is not exception.

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    #93248
    Profile photo of SteffenR
    SteffenR
    Participant

    this sounds like a sync error
    make sure your sync settings are correct

    #93270
    Profile photo of churchingnv
    churchingnv
    Participant

    Good afternoon. I spoke with Ryan at American Music and Sound. He said there is a known issue with popping on inputs (which should be resolved in the next firmware update), but they weren’t aware of an issue with outputs. He suggested I downgrade to the 1.4 firmware and monitor to see if the issue is resolved. I am running the old firmware now and will update here if the issue replicates. Hopefully the upcoming firmware will resolve the issue (beta is available now.)

    In regards to sync/clock, he said that is’t a factor in my case since the only I/O I am using is the built-in port for the DX-168. Clock is set to internal and never had issues prior to 1.5.

    Thank you both for your input!

    #93281
    Profile photo of BradWalker
    BradWalker
    Participant

    To answer @SteffenR’s questions about sync settings:

    I meant the AES output setting which can be 96K, 88.2K or 48K, not the overall system. We have one system where that’s set to 48K to be compatible with a CD recorder AES input. Another system we installed has two S-Link cards – one connected to a pair of DX168, the other connected to several ME-1s. I did a recording mix on that one yesterday, again with no pops or snaps.

    Today in the shop, our SQ5 in question had a pop where I saw the green check mark (indicating sync with the internal clock) stay lit when the pop occurred. Just for fun (since nothing is connected to it), I changed the AES sample rate to 48KHz, and we heard a snap after that.

    Are there other “sync settings” I should be looking at, @SteffenR?

    #93282
    Profile photo of BradWalker
    BradWalker
    Participant

    Known issue, eh? Moving back to V1.4 vs. living with random clicks and pops is a difficult proposition when the scene files have fully taken advantage of new 1.5 features.

    How do we become a beta tester for the firmware fix?

    #93313
    Profile photo of BradWalker
    BradWalker
    Participant

    My experience today with the SQ5 was doing a church’s outdoor service with FM transmitter, livestream feed, 5 monitor mixes (3 IEM, 2 wedge) and local PA zone. Very quiet for quite a while, but when it popped, it was full-spectrum and LOUD.

    About the only thing I noticed was that stereo input 2 (1/4″ TRS) seemed to be louder on the meters than everything else. I have a Radiol SB5W decora style direct box for iPods, etc. connected to those via stereo balanced outputs. I unplugged them from the mixer, but still got a couple of pops and snaps afterward. Most of these get tamed somewhat because we have MB4 comps and limiters set on all outputs, but it’s really unacceptable.

    Going back to V1.4 is also nearly unacceptable, too. It would mean losing a lot functionality of 1.5 features we have integrated into our scenes. No fun at all to rebuild mixes for multiple projects and different clients. The church client has been pretty understanding, but some of the others will not be.

    Who do I talk to about becoming a beta tester for the firmware fix?

    #93322
    Profile photo of KeithJ A&H
    KeithJ A&H
    Moderator

    @bradwalker and @churchingnv

    Really sorry to hear you have both had this issue with V1.5, and thank you Brad for taking the time to report your setup in detail – this has all been passed on to the developers.
    There have been a couple of reports of this from the many thousands of users, but we’ve now managed to reproduce it, and are currently working on a fix.

    We do not have a beta testing program, but of course there will be a maintenance update available as soon as possible.
    Although I understand the frustration of rolling back, this is the only option that is certain to prevent the noises from occurring until we have the update available.

    Thank you for your patience with this, and again, sorry for the temporary disruption that it’s caused.
    Keith.

    #93325
    Profile photo of BradWalker
    BradWalker
    Participant

    Thanks for the reply,

    Glad to hear the team has been able to reproduce it, that’s a huge step in the right direction. Would love to hear what circumstances or what unique hardware/software combination would precipitate the problem on such a small number of consoles.

    So V1.4 is noise-free at this time? Will there be any issues with plug-in authorization going back, then forward after maintenance update?

    Thanks, and let us know when the update is available.
    Brad

    #93326
    Profile photo of KeithJ A&H
    KeithJ A&H
    Moderator

    @bradwalker,

    The exact reasoning for the issue is what we are getting to the bottom of as I type, though it will almost certainly be a combination of tiny tolerance differences in conjunction with new processing in V1.5 and not related to any particular model or batch of units (otherwise it would have been picked up during the heavy testing and/or reported by many more users).

    Regarding your questions –
    We have never had anything similar reported when running V1.4, so if this noise began after the V1.5 update then I would say with a great deal of certainty that rolling back will avoid the issue in the short term.
    Add-ons are permanently installed independently of the firmware you are running, so although you will not be able to use Hypabass/Echo/Bucket-Brigade with V1.4, once you update to a V1.5.*+ firmware, they will all re-appear without the need to re-enter any keys.

    An email will go out to all registered SQ users (either registered through our webpage or the shop) once the release is available.

    Thanks,
    Keith.

    #93327
    Profile photo of Mfk0815
    Mfk0815
    Participant

    What I am thinking about is whether this issue appears immediately after updating to 1.5 or slow by slow. I am using a early SQ6 with V1.5. Since now I never experienced any noise at home. This weekend I worked with it at home for several ours with audio coming from my Dante card but two DX168 attached just for testing purpose. I did this in preparation of some shows which will happen the next view weeks. So I am asking myself whether to switch back to 1.4 or stay on 1.5.

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