Additional DEEP plugins from dLive 1.9 (Bus, Source Expanders)

[HughParticipant]

Scott, are you saying any amy and all software based processing is in no way limited by the SQ’s 36 bus design or it’s processing chip? That is a considerable departure from my understanding pursuant to fitting software to the existing processing limitations of any desk.
My effort to review the current knowns, pursuant to the SQ line, extended well beyond source expander plugins. Your selection of item #3, that illustrates the potential obsolescence of internal desk performance XLRs, is out of context. Item #2 describes my understanding of the A&H plugin priority process: if you possess information to the contrary please share it with us.

Please try to look at the entire question of future accommodation of any number of software and other related SR needs and/or wants. IMO the most likely device to achieve this end will be a universal processing controller that will enable a license purchase of any currently available plugin, when you need it. There will be expected price point intervals pursuant to the size of the desk, that will be determined by the number of faders and connective ports required.
It is an egregious mistake to limit the full range of high quality processing options exclusively to only large format consoles. Small & medium channel count applications vastly outnumber the need for large consoles, given the fact that today 48 expansion stage box inputs and needed outputs can be efficiently managed with 16 layered faders.
Hugh

[ScottParticipant]

I never said, nor implied that processing can’t reach processing limits. You are suggesting that SQ is at its current processing limit, which I seriously doubt. Anyway, if that were the case I’m sure that A&H would chime in and explain it, much like they did for the Dyn8 requests. Dyn8 is a different thing however, since it uses its own dedicated processing engine, which the SQ lacks. DEEP the SQ has which is what this thread was requesting. We will all just have to wait and see what A&H gives us in the SQ update. 🙂

[HughParticipant]

In my post of 05/03/22 this quote pursuant to a source expander request: “Perhaps Keith will see fit to let us know the reason/reasons it was not included in the SQ line and whether or not the SQ’s 36 bus architecture will accommodate it’s addition”

Asking for a an official response to a popular request that has been supported for more than 1 year is absolutely proper and timely. The absence of any official clarity from A&H does not obviate the importance of asking for the info.
Hugh

[ScottParticipant]

The source expander first showed up in dLive 1.9 which was released in Sep 2021, so not quite a year yet.

[GutsyStudio D&DParticipant]

+1

[BrianParticipant]

In my post of 05/03/22 this quote pursuant to a source expander request: “Perhaps Keith will see fit to let us know the reason/reasons it was not included in the SQ line and whether or not the SQ’s 36 bus architecture will accommodate it’s addition”

Asking for a an official response to a popular request that has been supported for more than 1 year is absolutely proper and timely. The absence of any official clarity from A&H does not obviate the importance of asking for the info.
Hugh

Hugh,

First, you can ask for an “official response from Allen and Heath” all you want. They may or may not reply to you. Actually they generally won’t reply unless it is to say that a request feature is outside of the capabilities of the device and therefore impossible to accommodate. They generally won’t reply to request otherwise – just like they won’t talk about upcoming features or release dates for firmware updates.

Second, while it’s been mentioned several times already, you either keep missing or don’t understand the point…..Allen and Heath didn’t include a Source Expander on their SQ series for the same reason they didn’t include it in the top of the line DLive series or Avantis series – because they hadn’t emulated it in their software yet when any of these consoles were released. However that omission isn’t a indication of their desire (or lack of desire) to have a Source Expander. The fact that Allen and Heath released the Source Expander in Sept 2021 for their flagship DLive line and in June 2022 for the Avantis series seems to indicate they understand the demand/interest in it. Given all of this , it isn’t outside the realm of expectations that they would eventually release it to the SQ series as a paid deep processing plugin.

Finally, your question about whether or not the SQ 36 buss architecture can handle the plugin doesn’t make a lot of sense and honestly just shows your lack of understanding how these plugins work. These types of plugins have nothing to do with the “36 buss architecture”. A Source Expander would just replace the existing gate functionality of the console. It doesn’t take more processing power to run an expander than a gate (they both simply allow or stop audio from passing when the levels reach a set threshold value). Therefore the SQ has enough existing power to allow a user to substitute a Source Expander ANY PLACE it currently allows you to put a gate. This is exactly how the other deep plugins work too. The addon “deep” compressors don’t take more processing power than the default compressors, they just produce a different result and you simply substitute a deep plugin for a stock compressor. The addon dynamic processors don’t take more processing power than the existing FX rack options, they just produce different results and you simply substitute the dynamic processors for any of the stock FX racks.

[TobiParticipant]

Hi Hugh,
its me again — Tobias… You are again advocating which is not your job. If I do you wrong, and you have any internal knowledge about the technical platform of SQ (software and/or hardware) and you can proof any of the the capability-stuff you always talk about, then I am gonna excuse… until then: I again kindly ask you to stop bullying around — that is exactly what you often do. (You asked me for proof — here you again gave one)

And yes: one characteristic of bullies is: they don’t believe they are.

Best Regards,
Tobias

PS: I already gave my +1 here I think…

[Dave MeadowcroftParticipant]

This is in the Feature Suggestions area so most of the discussion is simply irrelevant!

ANY suggestion is valid in this section, whether a particular individual would find a use for it or not. Whether the resources available in the console can handle it only A&H can answer.

If it’s not possible then A&H will generally respond. If it is possible then they normally let the requests thread run to see what the appetite for it is among the user base via +1s and/or ask for clarification or use cases where appropriate.

If you don’t see the use for it then simply move on.

Personally, I would welcome an expander option to substitute for the gate when needed so +1 from me.

[HughParticipant]

There are two important distinctions to be made in my posts in this thread.

1) If and when A&H finds it important to include an Expansion Option to the SQ line it will happen if the architecture design will accommodate it. To this end the only relevant opinion will ultimately come from A&H.
2) Open unused mics on stage are the bane of acoustic music SR and a primary source of feedback in many cases. I do deploy carefully set Gate kills occasionally to “Mute” all mics on stage to eliminate all noise generated below performance level inputs. Variable noise suppression is better handled with the automated algorithms that are commonly deployed in the studio with DAWs. They are very good at automatically suppressing low level mechanical system noise with a touch of a button.

I have no objection to the inclusion of expanders for those of us that need to use them for live SR performance, however to assume anything close to a universal need to that end is a gross overreach.
Hugh

[KeithJ A&HModerator]

Hi all,

Firstly, please note the comments on forum etiquette here – https://community.allen-heath.com/forums/topic/ah-technical-support
Whilst we advocate for freedom of expression and encourage healthy debate, we will remove negative and/or personal posts.
(If some of this thread seems disjointed to you that might be why)

I’m not sure whether jumping in here will cause more confusion or not… but until development and test time is assigned to looking at an expander for the SQ, there isn’t an answer we can give either way.

We never promise something unless we are 100% sure it’s going to happen (e.g. AMM and Dante card support was not in the very first SQ release but both were announced)
On the other hand we do try to jump in if something definitely can’t be done to save people from thinking it might happen if enough people ask.

So….
An expander might be possible on the SQ. (MIGHT! I said MIGHT! I genuinely don’t know!)
If this is something you’d like us to prioritize over other suggestions here, feel free to add a +1, or even better a ‘this is why I want it and how I’d use it’.
If you’d rather we focused on something else, please add your voice there instead.

Thanks,
Keith.

[Mfk0815Participant]

even better a ‘this is why I want it and how I’d use it’.

Keith, I think the reasons why providing an expander in a mixing console is a very good idea is already discussed in detail in other threads. And this reasons are the same for the dLive, the Avantis and the SQ. So, when the decision was made for the first two models, why should we repeat the reasons again for the SQ?
And please, do not even think about providing the expander as a plugin whe have to pay for. Even if some colleagues can‘t see it, expsnders are very essential for a good sound. In my opinion, if you want to have extra income, put the gate on the shop and the expander as the standard effect for the current gate slot. That would be a real service to your customers.

[ianhindParticipant]

+1 x1000

Expander is single handedly the top desire I have for this console and I wouldn’t care if I had to pay for it.

I already bought 4x Neve 545 I run as inserts, I also own SuperRack and regularly use PSE on the SQ Waves option card.
I could leave them at home, finally.

[Dirty SteveParticipant]

I assumed this was right around the corner – came here to check on why there has been no updates for SQ in a very long time, but several for Avantis and dLive.

Massive +1. Very odd it’s not there already.

[drc_onlineParticipant]

Late to the party here, but definitely +1 on the idea of a DEEP Primary Source Expander on the SQ as a way of cleaning up super busy mixes with less-than-stellar musicians on very crammed stages with lots of spill.
To give some context, I’ve just set up an SQ5 in a high school auditorium where they are already up to 35 out of 40 inputs on a big show, all on wedges (can you imagine dealing with in-ears for a rotating roster of teenagers?!!) and very variable mic technique. I’m trying to get the Music Tech kids to mix it and they need all the help they can get!
(Yes I know – they should do it ‘the old way’ to get used to it etc. good enough for us oldies etc.)

Thanks
Dave

[Gregg GreyParticipant]

+1000

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