[tk2kParticipant]

quote:

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Originally posted by millst
However, the under the hood architecture of studio based systems is quite different from the live scene however.
Studio systems have a more flexible DSP approach, usually PC based while live has a dedicated DSP approach.

I’m not sure it is an apples with apples comparison.

Toby

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I’m not sure that’s really true anymore

HDX is entirely FPGA-DSP-based (whereas HD Native is host based) Digico SD# is all FPGA software-dsp based, Bluefin 2 (calrec) is also FGPA based, with the SC48 is somewhere between. Pro2 is FPGA based as well.
While certainly there’s instruction sets for each application, the differences are far harder to identify.

Yamaha is the only manufacturer with a true inflexible DSP-based approach still on their flagship (CL). Venue is also still hardware DSP based.

Side note: Does anyone have any honest info on the iLive/GLD DSP? I don’t believe it is FPGA based, but its gotta be partly software based since we can reconfigure it so easily.

iDR-48, T-112, Mixpad
College

[tk2kParticipant]

quote:

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Originally posted by KarlTL

Doing some work with a venue with an iLive T80 surface, iDR48 and a linked xDR16. Board is configured for LR-S out’s, 16 Aux send’s etc..

It’s a fairly complex fixed venue. I didn’t set it up and the folks who did are not available to explain what/why they did certain configurations. I can sort out most things on the desk but a few things just escape me…

1. If I select an Aux Mix/Master strip, is there some simple way to see exactly which physical output’s the Aux is routed to?

2. On the LR and Sub Mix Master Strips, similar question. Is there a way to quickly see what/which/all physical output’s the LR and Sub out’s are routed to? On this particular system they route to multiple out’s, I just cant seem to sort out how to determine which ones.

Whats got my brain melting is that I was able to trace the physical xlr cable going to the sub amp. It connects to the iDR48, output I8. When I select the “Output” screen on the desk and select that output jack, the screen says it’s source is a direct out from chan 60…is this some internal chan or something? How would I look at that and see what’s routed to it???

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Karl

Reference Point Recording
Salt Lake City, Ut.

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Hi Karl,

Can’t stress enough how good the iLive tutorial videos are, they give you a really fantastic overview of the console, and they are quite accuritly named, meaning if you are looking for one feature you can watch a 5 min video instead of skipping through a 2 hour training DVD. They’re on youtube on the A&H account

1: Yes, there’s an outputs screen, but also you can select a prefrence so when you hold the ALT VIEW button it’ll show the physical input or output its routed to.

2: There’s an outputs button under the touch screen. Has all that info in it.

3: iLive has 64 ‘channels’ of DSP power, you can double-soft-patch and so on, so no matter if its an idr-64 or -16 you have the same DSP. Channel 60 could be a clone of another input, and iPod in from the surface, or anything else. No real good way to tell you what it is without seeing it.

there’s a great web app called iLive Viewer https://www.ilive-t.com/viewer that will generate output paperworks etc from a showfile. Really useful for configs you are not familiar with.

iDR-48, T-112, Mixpad
College

[tk2kParticipant]

quote:

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Originally posted by millst

quote:

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or some reason, people seem to forget that analog audio can be (and is) more than sine waves!

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Going down the path of 96k to reduce latency by 0.2ms (random number chosen) while sacrificing audio quality would also be the wrong reason because in my opinion, the latency is already best in class. (this one is still up for debate as some people seem to think latency is an issue).

If however, they can go down the 96k path, reduce latency AND make the desk sound better. Well that’s just fine and dandy by me and I’ll shut up and put my order in.

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What you are saying about the 96k doesn’t make any sense from a technical perspective, in terms of the summing of inputs. Its possible a lack of phase coherency is related to the ‘problem’ you are heading, but that’s got to do with DSP architecture, not sample rate, or sample rate mixing.

If this were true, no one would bother recording at 192k for studio work. The recorded audio world is picky enough we would have shot down higher sample rates long ago if what you are talking about was inherent to it.

iDR-48, T-112, Mixpad
College

[tk2kParticipant]

quote:

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Originally posted by Stix
Toby I’m not sure this is correct. As I suggested the sample rate and the converter latency are not directly related. The time it takes for a converter to process audio is not sample rate dependent as far as I can tell – a converter at 96k has to process twice the amount of data so could well be slower to do this!

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What I understand is that higher sample rates decrease latency as each stage of the pipeline occurs more quickly. Your EQ requires samples in order to know how it should adjust, your compressor needs to identify frequencies to key into, etc. All of this doesn’t take time per say, it takes data, and a higher sample rate means more data is available more quickly.

This has to do with buffer size, which in digital consoles is most often fixed, unlike ProTools, but you can try it out yourself, fire up Pro Tools and set the sample rate to 44.1k and look at the estimated latency based on buffer size. Then up it to 192k and look at the estimated latency at that buffer size.

Now, this might not be true for all designs. Digico runs FPGAs for everything so it makes a ton of sense, for Yamaha it probably doesn’t matter much since its discrete components. No idea what effect it would have on iLive.

iDR-48, T-112, Mixpad
College

[tk2kParticipant]

Dear A&H,

Please consider adding EUCON/modern DAW control protocol into the iLive. I know this might not be possible over ACE, or would maybe require booting the console in a separate mode, but I would gladly pay $2k to unlock this ‘feature’ mode, or for a host-control-app that woudl enable this functionality. Dont’ care if the local i/o works, but i’d love to be able to use my surface in the studio for mastering as well.

iDR-48, T-112, Mixpad
College

[tk2kParticipant]

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Originally posted by woutert

You’re basically looking for another live-mixer…

Why not add an IDR0 or IDR16 as live-stream mixer.

Wouter
IDR32, R72, Dante, Mixpad
laptop, TP-Link TL-WR1043ND

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This actually is not my first suggestion.

VOLCANOJEFF, what exactly are you trying to accomplish? Is it to stream, and archive 48 channels of audio, or just to stream a custom mix?

If the goal is to stream a custom mix, it makes far more sense to use a stereo aux off your iLive and just mix a stream feed on that. If your events are too dynamic to make that easy, there’s a few ways to go.

If you want to record, and mix for a live webcast, my suggestion would be ProTools or Logic, and get yourself a professional control surface. We do something very similar for our muis conservatory where we have a line-level split from the FOH console into some HD I/O’s into a mac pro running Logic and a https://www.avid.com/US/products/C24

This is perfect for us as it allows full recording, as well as live mixdown for our live web stream. Additionally after the event, the control surface is used for editing and mastering.

If that’s too much money (probably $8.5k plus computer and software) there’s plenty of smaller control surfaces, i’ve actually enjoyed the Avid Artist Mix a lot for a $1500 + computer and software solution. an SSL Nucleus will run you more like ~5k + computer and software.

and idr-16 + surface still won’t let you record 48 tracks, and would be a fine solution if you are just trying to web stream. But as latency isnt an issue (because you are web streaming) I would suggest getting out of the live-sound world and looking at DAW solutions.

p.s. thinking this out in my head, I seriously wish you could plug and iLive surface into a DAW. I’d pay $1000 for a EUCON iLive software-enabler.

iDR-48, T-112, Mixpad
College

[tk2kParticipant]

quote:

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Originally posted by millst

Is latency a problem though?
I’ve never once heard anyone complain about iLive audio latency.
Its one of the best in the business.

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I think the only real competitor is Digico in the latency market.
Yamaha is 3ms on the cl line, midas is 6+ ms, Venue is still good old 2.3

Digico and iLive are near-as-makes-no-difference 1.6 isn

iDR-48, T-112, Mixpad
College

[tk2kParticipant]

Yes and No.

Yes because sure that’d be nice to have i guess…

But no because, as you said, in order to have local audio inputs you’d need to run Cat5. You’re basically asking for something between a PL-Anet controller and a real surface. I don’t want A&H to waste hardware R&D on that.

I think the R72 is actually fairly well priced for what it is.

Decent laptop $1200
Fader bank would be at least two $1200 (Avid Artist Mix, $1400 with touch screen built in) and you
Touchscreen/tablet $200
100 foot CAT5 $100

So you’re at about $4k of gear before you add local i/o. I think $3k for perfect integration is worth the cost of an r72.

But really, the correct route to go here would be to add EUCON and full MIDI support to Editor, then you could plug an external control surface into it. Still no local audio, but that’d be 90% of what you are looking for, and would save A&H the huge R&D cost of creating their own hardware. Maybe even charge $100 to enable external hardware control, so those who need it can use it that way?

iDR-48, T-112, Mixpad
College

[tk2kParticipant]

quote:

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Originally posted by guyharris

Yep: I knew that … It would just be nice to see that restriction removed!

Cheers!

http://www.pianodome.nl
3D PianoShow!

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Oh so in the next hardware revision, gottcha

iDR-48, T-112, Mixpad
College

[tk2kParticipant]

quote:

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Originally posted by jcintas

I am having the same issue on a T-112 SPDIF out to a PC for recording mono track recordings of our church service and sermon. I also see the issue of the T-112 sending out a signal at 0db according to its meters from a matrix out and on the computer side I see -18db or less. This causes us to have to go through a digital normalize process after every recording to get the levels back up to audible levels for recording distribution.

Any work arounds?

A&H give us an option to switch the SPDIF output mode from dBu to dBFS, especially since Sam from A&H says most recording devices are dBFS.

— Jerry
T112/iDR 64/MixPad

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I hate to say ‘why does it matter?’ but why does it matter? if its’ digital all through the chain it shouldn’t make any difference other than visual?

The -18db is actually very smart, that headroom is extremely useful in multitrack settings so you don’t overload a bus.

p.s. I often user a external headphone amp for cans, and I have not had an issue (uses SPDIF)

iDR-48, T-112, Mixpad
College

[tk2kParticipant]

quote:

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Originally posted by Pitk

quote:

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Originally posted by whitcodj

Sounds like a cabling issue after the desk.

check / replace the cables connecting them.

Video is often on a different power source so try using an isolating transformer or DI to electrically isolate the system’s earths.

I hope this helps

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Sound and video were taken from same power distro, changing cables did not help, we even tried connecting to monitor mixer. Only thing that helped was as I changed stereo matrix to two mono matrixes. Physical outpits remained the same. So the failure was defenitely in iLive system.

Pitk.

Jukka “Pitkä” Kurkela
Äänimaisema Oy, Finland
iLiveT80 / iDr32

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where were you sourcing your stereo mix from? This seems highly unlikely, I use stereo matrix sends with no problem quite often

iDR-48, T-112, Mixpad
College

[tk2kParticipant]

quote:

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Originally posted by guyharris

Don’t think this has been covered, and it’s very specific to our needs, but the hardware limitation on side chain filtering to the same ‘group of 8’ causes us a few problems. It would be nice to be able to use ANY signal to side chain ANY other.

http://www.pianodome.nl
3D PianoShow!

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I believe that’s a hardware limitation, like how they could technically fit 8 AES ports on a card slot, but it can only handle 8 channels

iDR-48, T-112, Mixpad
College

[tk2kParticipant]

Both of these have actually already been addressed in this thread, the latency is in the video, and the second comment states plugin latency is dependent upon the kind of plug in.

quote:

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Originally posted by BerndVP

Hi Mumu,

I have T112 + iDR48 in combination with DANTE CARD.
I would like to use plug-ins.
Is there a lot of latency ? Or is it depended on what kind of plug-in you are using.. ?

T112 – iDR48 – Dante – v1.9

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iDR-48, T-112, Mixpad
College

[tk2kParticipant]

hmm that’s a whole new topic, if you ran A&H what’d you make?

iDR-48, T-112, Mixpad
College

[tk2kParticipant]

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Originally posted by grandmusik

Hi.
How is the best way to use Soundgrid/Waves for VirtualSC?

Is there anyone who know the best settings for “Soudgrid connections”?

i have it running but i think aim doing it wrong….

I like the system even more now with a bit boost in it []

Regards//Fredrik

T112, IDR48,D-link655, I-pad, Madi card, Waves card. 75m 2xCat6+2xAES+16A Mulitcore.

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iLive has an option for ‘swap port b inputs’ designed specifically for this sort of application, is that what you’re talking about?

iDR-48, T-112, Mixpad
College

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