[tk2kParticipant]

does this help?

https://www.allen-heath.com/UK/CategoryDocuments/iLive%20TCPIP%20Protocol%20V1.8%20iss2.pdf

[tk2kParticipant]

These guys are a rental house with a sales dept, and the sales dept sells A&H, so maybe give them a try?
https://www.audioeast.com/live.htm

Need an A2? I’m in boston till end of august! []

[tk2kParticipant]

-d
I believe the op is asking about a VCM or Venue style system where 3rd party devs can create effects that work within the console.

The answer for that is no. But honestly the quality of the built in fx is very very high. Granted you can’t get the same klind of studio replication you can on, say a venue, internally, but with the abundant Dante and Soundgrid support you can do it with very low latency and without eating up Fxs like you do on other consoles.

To me it was one of the big stumbling blocks for going with ilive. Not for me personally, but in terms of rider acceptances with larger groups. There have been times we’ve been able to save on back line by just renting an fx…. Anyway hope that helps

[tk2kParticipant]

I sort of tried to start a hybrid technical artistic thread here but it never really took off
https://iliveforum.allen-heath.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2058

quote:

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Originally posted by CMattE

I’ll also add that if you search I’m sure there’s older threads talking about the sound quality of these systems. I know because I read them before suggesting out church but one. And that may not be what you’re implying, but lately the topics have shifted to a more technical side.

Another thing is, I believe it’s somewhat assumed that someone using one of these, or any higher end digital mixer, isn’t new to live sound. I know there are younger/greener people here (myself included), but I think most users biggest “issues” are on the technical side. Just for example, I’m fairly confident on my ability to mix, I’ve just never had a wireless router attached to my desk before. Let alone the ability to use a tablet to mix with. So I’ve came here looking for answers to those issues. And I’m sure most others are in similar situations.

All that said, I do think there’s room, and probably interest in some discussion of the mixing side of things. Anything in particular anyone wants to discuss or share??? I’m always willing to learn a new mic’ing or mixing technique.

T112/48, MacBook Pro, D-link DIR-815, iPad 1 w/mixpad, Dante card feeding a Mac Mini w/DVS.

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[tk2kParticipant]

quote:

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Originally posted by naffdave

A thing ive noticed on here everything seems to be about connecting this connecting that seems to me nobody interesting in actually mixing sound just all computer geeks wanting to try the next toy out.
Im a 58 year old soundy started out without graphics/gates/comps or computers but took a digital desk out on tour as soon as i could as i saw the potential but i use it to mix sound not spend the whole time messing with routing and configuring and mixpad.
Does anyone else feel that with digital desks the whole thing has shifted away from just getting a good sound.
Naff

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I’m sure WW2 aircraft pilots would say the same thing about the 747 today, or an F1 driver, or really just about any profession that has become more objective and technical.
In the end of the day, all any of this is about is the sound. No one cares if you use compressors, gates, graphic eqs, or anything of that nature, as long as your sound is the best it can be. What I think you are missing is the fact that these technologies are tools, and just like any profession, mastery of the tools allows you to dive into the creative process. With digital desks, it’s more about knowing where and when to apply those tools, and setting up your workflow correctly to make that work.
There was a relaly good article in LSI a few months back taling about subjective engineers vs objective ones. The argument made was ‘it’s gotta be technically right before it can be artistically right’.

I’m only 22, I hear a lot of older sound engineers talking about the ‘good old days’ of the Dead live recordings, techniques for Hendrix guitar solos, and all of that (fantastic) work. But those are the gems of an erra. The reason forms like this focus on the technical aspects are simple, not everyone is Owsley Stanley. Digital, scientific audio has dramatically improved the quality of the average concert/recording. At the end of the day, it’s the engineer who makes or breaks a show/recording in terms of that extra 10% which separates a ‘good, solid’ mix from an ‘astounding’ mix. But that 10% isn’t really something you can teach, and it’s certainly isn’t something you can teach online.

One of my mentors in sound mixes at a conservatory now, although he did a lot of FOH work in the mid 70’s for a lot of big names. When the M7 got multiband compression he didn’t think much about it, until one day I was messing around with a virtual sound check, and showed him a demo. After about 10 mins he took the console, used it in ways i’d never thought of, and created an objectively and subjectively better mix. That right there is why we spend so much time on technical aspects, so when new tools are made available, we can learn them, master them, and apply them in our own creative ways.

So back to your original question,

quote:

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Does anyone else feel that with digital desks the whole thing has shifted away from just getting a good sound.

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No, certainly not.

[tk2kParticipant]

quote:

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Originally posted by arsound
Yes, I’ve used both apps extensively, and yes, MixPad offers more functionality. But the others don’t stop working in the middle of a show, like MixPad does, and it does so several times a night.

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Really? Because every time my ipad goes to sleep for longer than several mins (aka locks) stagemix disconnects, and i have to quit the app to get it to open again.

Yes small tweaks are nice to have from an ipad, but and ipad is not the same thing as a dedicated hardware piece, or a laptop…

I know in the end of the day all that matters is if it works. I also agree that by charging $100 AH sets up expectations of something more than ‘a free tool’. I totally get that.

[tk2kParticipant]

Personus app is really good, but it’s got limitations too.

Have you guys actually used the Yamaha apps? They’re terrible, at least the ls9 one is. Scene recall takes at least twenty seconds for the iPad to register (says syncing) meaning it useless as an actual scene management and interface app. You can’t do any real setup and you can’t access fx racks geqs or anything like that.
Now ah need tO do some work, but really the truth is MOST digital audio console apps are terrible. Venue doesnt even have one, Midas doesn’t really count, not does Personus because the consoles were built with app integration in mind. For the ilive this is a retrofit, and it’s a damn good one compared to Yamaha. Btw there’s still no 5d app, I know a lot of Yamaha guys vert disappointed with that.
Is it perfect? No, but to say its of lower quality than other retrofit apps is just untrue

[tk2kParticipant]

Arsound,

Please note, this is exactly the circumstance where you can get a refund from Apple, at least until the issues are resolved.

[tk2kParticipant]

I would love that, I think dropbox might be a great way to go, it’d be cool if there was some way to rate them as well, but obviously that’s a lot more complex than dropbox.

I’ve created a share folder, currently has nothing in it, but please shoot me a message if you want to be on the share (I can’t just make it public sadly)

or shoot me an email with some presets you wouldn’t mind sharing? austin.federa@gmail.com

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/q8jkwa3diwx1g72/wiap8DGwi2

[tk2kParticipant]

I think it is interesting how this post appears directly below yours
https://iliveforum.allen-heath.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2056

ACE control protocol is an error checking, call and response protocol. This means if multicasting is not enabled, it will ‘hang’ our ‘wait’ for a response from ALL connected devices (mixpad, editor, and the surface itself) infact in the training video they specifically address this, showing how the surface can ‘freeze’ for several seconds on a slow connection.

It is possible the same sort of thing is happening in your case. The iPad sends control data to the mix rack, and the mix rack sends it back. You changing the fader value and it not ‘doing anything’ is a data communications failure in some capacity.

Launch field test and take a look at your wifi signal strength when you are at your set distance from the mix rack, that could explain what is going on. It’s possible you are getting wifi interference from other devices in the area, and that once the mixpad app loses connection it has a hard time reestablishing it.

It looks like you have done some very extensive testing, just a few questions

a) have you tried it in a different physical venue? i.e. outside in a field or somewhere where you can be sure nothing else is interfering with it?
b) have you tried resetting the ipad to factory default? My guess is if you are using two ipads, they are running the same config file, or syncing to the same computer. You could have corrupt network settings on the file?

I really hope people do not respond aggressively. You are obviously having trouble. That being said, at this point it may be more appropriate/productive to contact A&H support directly.

[tk2kParticipant]

I think it is interesting how this post appears directly below yours
https://iliveforum.allen-heath.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2056

ACE control protocol is an error checking, call and response protocol. This means if multicasting is not enabled, it will ‘hang’ our ‘wait’ for a response from ALL connected devices (mixpad, editor, and the surface itself) infact in the training video they specifically address this, showing how the surface can ‘freeze’ for several seconds on a slow connection.

It is possible the same sort of thing is happening in your case. The iPad sends control data to the mix rack, and the mix rack sends it back. You changing the fader value and it not ‘doing anything’ is a data communications failure in some capacity.

Launch field test and take a look at your wifi signal strength when you are at your set distance from the mix rack, that could explain what is going on. It’s possible you are getting wifi interference from other devices in the area, and that once the mixpad app loses connection it has a hard time reestablishing it.

It looks like you have done some very extensive testing, just a few questions

a) have you tried it in a different physical venue? i.e. outside in a field or somewhere where you can be sure nothing else is interfering with it?
b) have you tried resetting the ipad to factory default? My guess is if you are using two ipads, they are running the same config file, or syncing to the same computer. You could have corrupt network settings on the file?

I really hope people do not respond aggressively. You are obviously having trouble. That being said, at this point it may be more appropriate/productive to contact A&H support directly.

[tk2kParticipant]

Remember the iDR is 64×32 regardless of how many physical sockets it has. The editor will show you 64 useable channels, even though you won’t be able to fill them with physical inputs and outputs. That may be the source of some confusion.

[tk2kParticipant]

So im still wondering why you want it faster? the touchscreen does zero processing, and the ‘lag’ when recalling show files is due to the DSP, not the touchscreen computer (time loading off ilive editor vs touchscreen, its the same)

The only advantage I could see is in boot time for the touchscreen itself?

[tk2kParticipant]

Well send me your spare 64 :p

But in all seriousness, need a few questions answered first

A: are you using an analogue split, or do you want the monitor console to copy from your idr10? I assume you are wanting a split from your idr10 otherwise there would be absolutely no reason to network em.

So, The remote audio card has two ace ports, I believe you can just run from that second ace port directly to your monitor console. But I assume you are wanting the additional dsp power? That’s what the idr0 is made for, but as you have an idr64 you can use that instead. Am I right n assuming all you will be using is its outputs?

[tk2kParticipant]

Right, I guess I assumed the board delay was greater than (i’m going to make this easy) say two feet? Maybe that’s a bad assumption- I just don’t want to end up over-delaying a monitor mix. But that clears things up for that second question.

As far as the top goes, the default template has wedge and IEM mixes, which I understand behave differently?

[Author]

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