[abstractnoiseParticipant]

Did notice some changes on outputs with graphic EQ’s active in the signal path, notably due to the new types of GEQ filtering available. Changing the type of GEQ in circuit will change both the sound and output level of the channel depending on the source material and how the filters interact with it. Once I found a “sound” I was happiest with by cycling through the various GEQ types, I found that the output levels before/after the firmware update were the same.

I wonder if that might be where the OP’s problem lies.

Work web: https://www.allsouls.org
Home web: https://abstractnoise.co.uk

[abstractnoiseParticipant]

I remember the same issues coming up when Lion was released…

Personally I’m not affected by this as I’m choosing not to upgrade from Lion until I *need* to. That said, I do have a concern for those who were “unfortunate” enough to buy new Apple hardware that only supports Mountain Lion with no (supported) option to roll back to Lion or earlier systems as the drivers don’t exist in those older OS bundles for the newer hardware. Regression of the OS *might* be possible in such cases but I’ve yet to have it work for me.

It’s unfortunate but entirely understandable (to me, based on somewhat limited understanding of Apple development cycles and their apparent aversion to roadmaps) that A&H has to be behind the curve on compatibility with future Mac OS releases.

Work web: https://www.allsouls.org
Home web: https://abstractnoise.co.uk

[abstractnoiseParticipant]

T80 user here, essentially a fixed install in a church:

Bank 1:

A: 4 x handheld vox mics, 4 x headworn speech mics, lectern speech, AV1 (stereo), AV2, CD(Stereo)
B: Kick, snare, OHs’ (stereo), Tom1, Tom2, Tom3, <GAP> Bass, EGtr1, EGtr2, AGtr1, AGtr2
C: Keys 1, Keys 2, Piano (stereo), Violin1, Violin2, Viola, Cello, DBass, Oboe, Clarinet, Sax, Flute,
4 x handheld vox mics (duplicate) <GAP> 4 x Choir mics. – duplication here allows singers and choir to be easily balanced together.

Bank 2:

A: DCA’s for: Drums, Bass, Guitars, Keys, Strings, Wind, Vox (singers, inc choir), Band (all instruments)
B: Monitors 1-8
C: Loop, Overflow, Recording and 100V line aux mixes <GAP> Reverb FX, Delay FX
<GAP> – available for customisation.

Not strictly layout, but might help explain logic:

Masters and matrices are hidden to help protect system EQ/delay/limiting, but accessible to those who know what they’re doing. Speech and playback wired straight to Master mix, no DCA. Band/Vox muting and levelling by “master DCA’s”.

Those of us with in-depth knowledge of sound/iLive will tend to customise for events much different to the normal Sunday services, otherwise the defaults as above give us a working mix within minutes of everyone showing up, and everyone knows where to find things.

First thing when arriving at a new rig is to hit the “defaults” softkey to recall a default scene, and plug in/unmute/customise/mix from there. Hit “defaults” when done, and the system is reset with all inputs muted ready for the next job.

Muuuch quicker than the old 32ch analogue with input/output patchbay it all replaced…

Work web: https://www.allsouls.org
Home web: https://abstractnoise.co.uk

[abstractnoiseParticipant]

Wow, thank you so much for this great tool!

I wonder whether it could be expanded to read off (and tabulate) individual channel settings? This would make it much easier to manage incremental changes so that we can pass on the “before” and “after” tables to a third party along with the details of the changes we know we made, so they can sign off on the fact that only the things we *wanted* to change have been?

Work web: https://www.allsouls.org
Home web: https://abstractnoise.co.uk

[abstractnoiseParticipant]

Please count me in as one who would like to see gate/comp/limit lights OFF when the processing is OFF – it’s lead my team in to some pretty good wild-goose-chases that ended up with them so absorbed in fixing the problem that they ended up missing more important cues. Sure, we can’t account for others’ lack of discipline, but with some good design we can certainly limit the options!

Work web: https://www.allsouls.org
Home web: https://abstractnoise.co.uk

[abstractnoiseParticipant]

Another thing I’ve been missing in our iLive setup that I used to keep some outboard around for in previous rigs is…
…some form of valve-amp (or modelling of such). I love using it in more subtle modes for vocals, bass and acoustic guitars, even for live mixes – anyone else missing this?

Work web: https://www.allsouls.org
Home web: https://abstractnoise.co.uk

[abstractnoiseParticipant]

Andy, this would be very useful to us.

We use the same basic system week-in/week-out, and make changes to the setup in incremental stages as needs grow or ancillary equipment fails. There are so many things to get wrong when making an update to be used by others who don’t have the knowledge or rights to edit the desk programming, and with the best will in the world we still come unstuck occasionally when things get muted that shouldn’t be, etc. Having a “differences report” would help solve this, particularly if it can delve into scenes inside show files, and if it can tell us things like “Aux 3 is muted in the new scene, but was unmuted in the old. Did you mean that?” Such a report would also be really useful in building an accurate changelog for those managers coming at things from a software-development background, or for telling a team of operators what you’ve done, for example.

Work web: https://www.allsouls.org
Home web: https://abstractnoise.co.uk

[abstractnoiseParticipant]

Thanks Stealth – ticket and show file submitted.

Work web: https://www.allsouls.org
Home web: https://abstractnoise.co.uk

[abstractnoiseParticipant]

UPDATE: Been seeing the issue again this last few weeks. Our stereo ambience feed tends to route ONLY the right channel to any other mix on the board. I’ve also seen the issue occur on stereo AV and piano inputs managed the same way. I’ve found two ways to bring stereo routing back:

1) Select the affected stereo channel, and hold down the “SEL” key in the pre-amp section
2) Reset the channel (holding RESET and selecting the channel SEL key).

When the fault occurs:
a) it’s usually the right channel that routes and the left channel going nowhere.
b) PAFL (assuming it’s in stereo mode) sometimes plays stereo, otherwise will match the routing.
c) the metering for the channel will show independent levels for L and R, with what look to be appropriate readings when using known source material.

Usually, recalling a scene (our “Defaults” scene) will trigger the problem if it doesn’t exist. Resetting the affected channel, saving changes to the scene or the show, then recalling doesn’t help.

I’m going to rebuild the desk settings from scratch today, and will then see if I can recreate the problem with fresh settings. If it behaves, I’ll see if I can run a differential report on the saved XML files for the old and rebuilt shows, to see if there’s a problem with the show file I’ve been carrying forward.

Meanwhile, has anyone else seen this issue, and is there a known fix?

Work web: https://www.allsouls.org
Home web: https://abstractnoise.co.uk

[abstractnoiseParticipant]

To answer the “use real outboard for speaker processing” brigade – that’s fair, but for many of us it’s OTT in terms of weight, space and expenditure, especially if there is enough DSP horsepower in systems like the mixing system to do the job required. We can reduce latency and potential for grounding/pre-amplifier noise by not having multiple pre-amplification, digital<->analogue conversion and DSP stages in the chain. It also reduces the number of points of failure – a big problem I encountered in similar analogue systems doing the same job as our digital deployment now does. On the one hand this is a bonus, but on the other hand it’s a problem if you don’t think about backup desks/PSU’s etc.

For jobs big enough to warrant separate system, monitor and house engineers, then by all means throw as many boxes as you need at the task. But for one-or-two-engineer shows that the majority of iLive users I’ve spoken with are deploying them on, simplifying the system really helps with deployment, troubleshooting and load-in/out!

Work web: https://www.allsouls.org
Home web: https://abstractnoise.co.uk

[abstractnoiseParticipant]

Does the Speaker Matrix FX processor have the ability to feed matrix mixes after it, or can it only go straight to the outputs? Not near mine to play with it right now to check for myself…

Work web: https://www.allsouls.org
Home web: https://abstractnoise.co.uk

[abstractnoiseParticipant]

@lawbass61 what kind of crossover functionality are you looking for? We’ve managed to work very happily by enabling 20Hz-20KHz mode for Output PEQ, and then engaging HPF/LPF on Main L, R and SUB feeds as appropriate. Works wonderfully for taking manual control of our elderly Bose speaker system. Sounds a lot better than letting the original analogue “processor” (custom EQ box) take care of it!

Work web: https://www.allsouls.org
Home web: https://abstractnoise.co.uk

[abstractnoiseParticipant]

Ah yes – meant to post on that last week – thanks guys! Very happy here!

Work web: https://www.allsouls.org
Home web: https://abstractnoise.co.uk

[abstractnoiseParticipant]

Hmm… playing with the board and source this morning I couldn’t make it repeat the same issue I had a couple of Sundays ago. I’ve applied the Firmware 1.83 update just to be current, and reimported the settings from USB and all seems well. Hopefully I’ll never see the issue again!

Work web: https://www.allsouls.org
Home web: https://abstractnoise.co.uk

[abstractnoiseParticipant]

Installed on iLive T80 and IDR48 this morning. All good now, but not without a nervous moment after the touchscreen errored out on first boot after applying the update. The touchscreen remained unresponsive, and the surface eventually found its default layout and applied it, but was unresponsive to any buttons. I waited a few more minutes before pulling the plug – then it booted fine, and all the firmware checks indicate 1.83 is installed for each component. Been fine since.

1.83 Editor for Mac seems to be working on Lion now, too!

Work web: https://www.allsouls.org
Home web: https://abstractnoise.co.uk

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