How to route FX1 bus to external gear?

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This topic contains 16 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Yann Yann 2 years, 9 months ago.

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  • #71542
    Profile photo of Tony T.
    Tony T.
    Participant

    Hi,

    I want to use my Lexicon MPX1 with the SQ5.
    I want to use FX1 bus for this, patched to Local out 10.
    Anybody an idea how to do this?
    Lexicon out is connected to stereo in 1.

    Thanks Tony

    #71622
    Profile photo of Yann
    Yann
    Participant

    Clear rack 1 so there is no effect in it. Hit back panel view on the empty rack and choose your in and out routing.

    … i think from memory. Im only using external gear as inserts.

    #71835
    Profile photo of Tony T.
    Tony T.
    Participant

    Hi Yann,

    I created an empty rack for effect 1, but then you can’t select eff1 bus.
    Probably the best option is to select a suitable effect and set dry:effect to 100% and then route eff1 out to local out.

    Regards,

    Tony

    #71906
    Profile photo of Yann
    Yann
    Participant

    Hey Tony

    You’re right actually. I had a play with it over this weekend and you cant insert an outboard unit into 1 of the FX racks. I just saw a load of options on the back panel last time and assumed you would be able to. This is definitely an oversight and I will put something on the feature suggestion page when I get a chance.

    I used to run a little Studiomaster Digilive. Its a 16 channel digital mixer from the UK. Very bog standard, but it allowed you to insert an effect onto a mix bus (which the SQ can do) but then also send a aux bus to another mix bus or the main LF! This is something that ive had in the back of mind about the SQ for a while. They would need a failsafe so you couldnt send 2 to each other and create a feedback loop which could potentially do damage.

    This wouldn’t obviously be an elegant solution for FX, but I would like to be able to do that for other reasons.
    Kinda like a group.. except with seperate sends that dont just follow the main LR. Then can be routed to another Bus.

    Thoughts?

    #71910
    Profile photo of Gab
    Gab
    Participant

    i think the problem there would be to keep it phase coherent.

    #71976
    Profile photo of SteffenR
    SteffenR
    Participant

    you can connect the MPX1 to a mix out and get it back in to a stereo channel…

    #71977
    Profile photo of Yann
    Yann
    Participant

    I have just done some experimenting, and came here to post my findings, and sadly Steffen is right!

    You will have to insert your gear onto a Aux (using up 2 inputs and 2 outputs) you will then have to route that Aux to 2 output sockets and connect them straight back into 2 input channels (putting pads on them of course).

    This definitely needs addressed cos thats 8 local sockets and 2 input channels wasted to make 1 outboard FX bus.

    Anyway below is my failed method (so no one else wastes their time)

    ———————-
    I hadn’t yet discovered why I couldnt pull FX Returns 5-8 down onto the surface. Now I realise those 4 racks have to be routed to something (bus/main/channel/matrix) Even if there is an empty rack, it enables the use of the FXrtn 5-8. This only works if the rack is assigned to Mix+Return. Not insert.

    So I made rack 5 a mix/return for Aux 5 on the desk. Then Inserted my outboard directly onto Aux 5…. and got no audio into FXrtn 5.

    So I added an effect (it was empty at first) and the audio came back in fine, also with the effect added in. So I tried to bypass the effect on its settings, Turning everything down to 0 but the reverb will always add something.

    Tried the delay with the in/out filters overlapping each other but that also cut out the audio coming back to the return.

    Could have tried the chorus with settings to 0 but I gave up cos when I realised this is silly. A&H simply need to allow a local analogue insert onto an FX bus. All 1-8, not just 5-8.

    Will write in Feature suggestion soon. Please correct me if I’ve missed anything obvious.

    #71978
    Profile photo of Tony T.
    Tony T.
    Participant

    Hi Steffen,

    Thanks for your response.
    As I wrote in my original post, Lexicon out is connected to stereo in1, that’s not the issue.
    Sometimes I need 10 auxes for monitors, so I hoped I could connect Lexicion to FX1 bus in some way.
    If there was a ‘though’ function in effect libray (what goes in comes out) it was no problem.
    But what Yann said is the problem: You can send effect1 out to a local bus, but even if you set all effect parameters to zero, there’s alwasy something added to the original (dry) signal.

    #71979
    Profile photo of SteffenR
    SteffenR
    Participant

    the FX returns are just for the internal fx, so where’s the problem?
    If you need external FX, then you have to use mixes and inputs

    btw just 4 sockets are used, 2 out 2 in

    #71980
    Profile photo of Mfk0815
    Mfk0815
    Participant

    I still cannot see the problem. I have used my M3000 (Vocal Verb and Delay) last week (for testing purpose) on my SQ6 in that way:
    Because Aux1-6 is used for 6 wegdes I used Aux7-8 for sending to the M3000. those two Auxes were routed to the local output sockets 7 and 8 and the auxes were configured to be post fader.
    The two returns of the M3000 were connected to local sockets 23-24 and those are routed to Input 41-42 (a Stereo pair). So two sockets for output and two sockets for input and the show can start;-)
    I don’t see any reason to work with the FX rack of the SQ in a complicated way when I just want to use an outboard FX. KISS is a also a workflow strategy;-)

    #71981
    Profile photo of SteffenR
    SteffenR
    Participant

    Hi Toni,
    sorry I was writing at the same time… 🙂

    what Yann said is no problem, because it’s not made for this purpose…
    put the lexicon in insert mode it will change the sound as well, even it is bypassed…
    that’s how outboard behaves

    #71982
    Profile photo of Tony T.
    Tony T.
    Participant

    Hi Steffen and Mfk0815,

    Of course I can feed my Lexicion with any mix bus.
    But as I said, I need mixes 1 to 10 for monitors.
    So I was curious if it was possible to use Internal effectbus1 for connecting an external effect.
    Conclusion is there’s no way to get a dry signal out of effect 1 (routed to a local output) to use as send for my Lexicon.
    It would be nice if there’s a feature to ‘short’ input and output from an internal effect so you can send a dry signal to a (local) output.
    I know it’s also an option to setup mixer for 12 auxes and 0 groups, but as I said I was just curious.

    #71993
    Profile photo of Yann
    Yann
    Participant

    Ok I was overthinking with the 8 sockets arrangement. I didn’t think of putting the FX physically in series between a mix out and an input. You got me 🙂

    But Steffen, you can’t say its not made for this purpose. The whole point of the FPGA core is that is completely reconfigurable and customisable.

    I do think A&H need to allow the Rack FX to patch in analogue inserts. What if you’re using up 4 groups and 8 Auxes and want 2 outboard units? Its a shame to waste 4 dedicated busses and 8 Stereo returns if your outboard is analogue, not to mention wasting 2 desk inputs per unit by using an Aux. If you are a theatre with 30+ wireless mics this is going to piss you off eventually.

    What do you think?

    #71994
    Profile photo of Mfk0815
    Mfk0815
    Participant

    I agree with you about allowing FX Sends to be routed to physical outputs. This allows you to have a miximum of 16 Mixbusses at once.
    But on the other side I think that each mixing desk has its limitations and it is easily to find some requirements which is not fulfilled by the desk. The simple answer to this is „then you have to choose another mixing desk“. If your standard configuration goes to the limit of the device you won‘t have room for special needs. A situation I always try to avoid.

    #71995
    Profile photo of Yann
    Yann
    Participant

    I’m with you on that philosophy. But A&H put the forum here for feedback. I guess if they can do it, they will and if they can’t they wont.

    I dont think the Sends will go to outputs, that wasn’t my suggestion. They still only go to Rack 1-4, but on the back panel of the rack (on screen) there would be an insert in routing option. Choose the 2 output sockets and 2 input sockets that the outboard is linked up to.

    Using digital inserts like this allows all outboard to be just plugged into the mixer however it fits, and all the routing done on screen. Easier setup, and easier to make changes. Swap analogue for digital, move outboard to a different rack. Easy peasy! Digital and Analogue all integrated together on the FX tab!

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