[Jens-DroesslerParticipant]

As said I used Cubase on Windows. After configuring everything it ran smoothly. No hiccups, no high CPU load so far. I didn’t touch the latency settings, it worked fine. Also latency isn’t an issue if you’re only recorind all tracks. It would be an issue, if you wanted to do a monitor mix in the PC instead of the Qu, which doesn’t make that much sense, since the Qu has everything needed for a low latency monitor mix.

[Jens-DroesslerParticipant]

Impossible? Umm, how did I just record a band on 16 tracks then with cubase on Windows 8 two days ago? Oh yeah, right, they released a driver for Windows. Works! It’s an ASIO driver with an additional Directsound driver. So you could use Cubase to record all channels and still use foobar or WinAmp two play music while the band pauses. Only stupid thing is that it seems the Directsound driver always plays to ch 1 and 2 on the Qu16 and not on a stereo in. That sucks.

[Jens-DroesslerParticipant]

19″ is the key here. Also, the Qu32 does not need just A LITTLE more space, it takes a lot more space. Two layers of preamp inputs with 16 faders each, that makes 32 channels. Easier to handle than one layer with 16 and one layer with 8 channels plus some mixes or fx and a third layer with the rest, don’t you think?

I wouldn’t like a solution like the X32 rack. Relying only on WiFi is a nogo in many cases. Also, if you want that, go buy an iDR32. That’s exactly what it can do. In addition, this explains why A&H wouldn’t do a QuRack.

[Jens-DroesslerParticipant]

I thought about proposing it in the GLD range, too. But I see some problems with that. First of all, the features of the Qu32 would be enough. Yes, more FX slots would be nice, but many other things aren’t necessary for a 19″ device. Also the GLD offer only a very small amount of onboard preamps with XLR, limiting flexibility which is the essential thing I am after in a 19″ mixer. I’d also fear a GLD range 19″ unit would be made in the image of the R72, a thing I wouldn’t like at all. Only 12 faders and no channel strip at all? The good thing about the Qu series is that you can give tese mixers to anyone. Even digiphobes would grasp the concept. An R72 with almost no physical knobs is much more complicated to handle.
Also, yes, one could say the Qu is one fader per socket, but it wouldn’t be fully true. Just think of the stereo ins, the FX returns etc. It already causes a need to switch layers. So why not 16 faders (plus master fader) with more layers and for the money saved on another 16 faders and 16 preamps with XLR some simple displays? I think many people would even consider buying a Qu32 Compact if they’d only need a Qu16, because at the moment the Qu16 is the only realistic option for a 19″ digital mixer from A&H. (I know one could buy a R72 and an iDR16, but look at the price and still, the R72 is far worse to use).

[Jens-DroesslerParticipant]

Yes, it is true. Or at least it feels like its true. Just take the QuPad app which is FREE. It’s more responsive, easier to handle and more robust in terms of WiFi drop outs than the iLive app for which I paid a lot of money. Even compared with other systems like X32 the iLive app can do many things less. And still those other apps are free. The reasoning for charging nearly 100 bucks for the app was that it replaces a surface. But it doesn’t. No FX editing, no routing, no… So the PC editor could replace a surface, because it can do all that and much more. Oddly enough it’s FREE.
To get back to the point: The app is a great example for what’s wrong with the iLive system. I own two complete systems. But sometimes I have to be envyous seeing what a GLD or X32 and in some cases even a Qu can do. And the iLive is still supposed to be top of the line! I have a very strong feeling that the iLive is pretty much abandoned right now. Some of the V1.9 features were missing the point why people wanted them, pthers come at a price too high to use them regularly. It’s so sad… A&H adds more and more products to the digital lines and the same people seem to be programming the software, which means less time is spent on enhancing the iLive software. See the pricing, look at what you get for a used iLive system. If I sell my T80 and iDR32 I couldn’t even afford a new GLD80, yet I’m supposed to pay triple of what a Qu16 costs for a R72, a surface with less knobs, less motor faders, far worse usability and no DSP power at all. Being an iLive user sucks right now. Would you care to fix that, A&H?

[Jens-DroesslerParticipant]

I think your argument about the mixapp killing surface sales is wrong. There are lots of things you can’t do with the mixapp, you need at least a PC with the editor. The PC with editor could be used standalone, with a MIDI faderbox and whatnot, yet it is free. So what’s the point in your argument?

No refunds you say, alright. But how would YOU feel if you just bought an app and shortly after that it is available for free?

[Jens-DroesslerParticipant]

Losing an EQ band is not an option.

And yes,cascading two butterworth filters of the same order and frequency results in a filter with 6dB point as edge. This is how Linkwitz-Riley filters are constructed.

But maybe the shelving EQ bands could be done with selectable slopes (at least 6dB in addition to the 12dB standard?) and the locut/highpass EQ could be with selectable Q?

[Jens-DroesslerParticipant]

For reasons established in other threads subs off aux or even LR Sub is not recommendable, unless you use the aux or the Sub mix per channel only as a switch. If you change the level of the sub mix per channel to be different from the main mix, it will have negative impact on the phase coherence and the linearity of your overall system.

Of course making the lowcut switchable to higher orders of filtering will be a DSP problem. The higher the order/steepness, the higher the DSP usage.

Anyways, I’d like to see that feature too. Making it global, setting it for ALL channels from preference, would make it pretty useless again. You’ll need to decide PER CHANNEL what the right order/steepness is.

[Jens-DroesslerParticipant]

quote:

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Originally posted by clarocque

Will the iPad app be free in the future to match GLD’s free app?

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I don’t think so. If that would happen I’d definitely expect a refund!

[Jens-DroesslerParticipant]

Thanks for the replies!

@ nicola: So this means after that firmware update for Dante I can have a single network cable run between surface and mixrack based on Dante audio transport inseatd of your proprietary ACE, right? Are there any drawbacks compared to ACE? Do I have to do the patching every time? Or will you maybe offer a standard routing for Dante comparable to the default ACE routing?
Also, would this work with a Dante card in an iDR16, 32, 48, 64?

My “dream” would be that A&H will drop ACE completely and go all in for Dante, even for T- and R series. Dante is everywhere, as it seems… Lab Gruppen PLM, Nexo NXAmps, Shure ULX-D wirelss microphones… the list grows and grows. Using Dante and ACE simultaneously offers no advantage, I think, only drawbacks…

@ millst: As far as I know the Dante card offers two network connectors which can be used to provide “lossless” redundancy. Isn’t this working

[Jens-DroesslerParticipant]

quote:

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Originally posted by guyharris

I didn’t expect that having control over the very low frequencies through the new EQ would make such a difference, but it has: not in boosting, but in cutting out the very lowest frequencies on the drum mix, which (I think) sends a more useful signal to the bass amps, by not trying to have the speakers move at 20Hz.

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While I’m glad you like the new firmware like I do, I must say this particular thing raises some questions.
1. Why didn’t you just use the parametric EQs highpass on the drum group? Just set the lowest EQ band to locut/highpass, set it to the lowest frequency you want in that group and be done? this would have worked for a long long time. Cutting a wider range of adjacent frequencies (like 20, 25 and 31Hz) with a GEQ introduces by far heavier phase distortions than using the cut of the PEQs.
2. Why do your speakers move at all at 20Hz? Aren’t you using a highpass in the digital speaker management for your PA to protect it from mechanical stress? If not, you are wasting a lot of energy into frequency ranges that probably aren’t reproduceable by your PA.

[Jens-DroesslerParticipant]

No, this hasn’t happened again since. But I lost that job as I heard recently to another company. A job I did four years in a row.

[Jens-DroesslerParticipant]

quote:

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Originally posted by guyharris
Remember that the A&H software (both editors and smartphone Apps) kills some of their own sales (surfaces and PL-ANET units).

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Well, the PC editor is free and it is full-featured, while the iPad app comes at a high price for this kind of app (It seems all the competitors apps are free). I don’t think the MixApp can kill surface sales big time, but maybe PL devices sales, at least for “mobile” use (like giving each musician a PL device). OTOH you can “idiot proof” an installation with the PL devices, but not with the MixApp. So I guess it’s not that harmful (the free PC editor on a windows tablet PC would be more harmful, I think). It’s just my point of view, not a complaint about the price.

quote:

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Having used Behringer digital mixers in the past, for 3rd parties I hasten to add, and seen them fail (something that’s never happened in my experience with A&H equipment)

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To be honest, my first digital mixer was the Behringer DDX3216. It never had any problems, no hickups, no freezes, no nothing. The only reason I sold it was for reputations sake (I got an Yamaha 01v96 instead, big mistake…). I also have yet to hear about critical fails of a X32, in fact I hear only good things about the reliability. But it’s kind of a new product, so there is no way to tell about long term reliability yet. In addition to that, I once had a really bad problem with my T80/iDR32 system, which jammed an event. One of the worst things that can happen to a technical provider like me. My other system, T112/iDR48, never had any problems. So it’s not that easy, there is no “Behringer bad, A&H good”, it’s all gray…

quote:

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make your feelings known (for example about the lack of editing for FX, which I agree with) and you can be sure that they’ll listen to their customers …

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I thought, that’s what I’m doing here…

quote:

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Behringer? Hmm – not so sure and I certainly don’t consider them to be a ‘professional’ level sound equipment manufacturer.

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It doesn’t matter what you or I think about that. The question is: “Do they get the job done?” And it seems that way, as the customers seem to be pretty happy with the X32 (No, I surely won’t sell my iLives to get X32s! I know why I decided for iLive and I stand by that decision!). Also, the fact that you don’t see Behringer as a professional level equipment manufacturer makes it even worse: An amateur level equipment company offers features the professionals don’t offer (not to mention for free)? You see where I’m going?

[Jens-DroesslerParticipant]

The fact that I’m disappointed does not mean I won’t be happy if some or all of the features I want will be implemented. But how will the devs know what “we” want, if we don’t spell out what we don’t like? Of course I hope the system I put my faith and my money into will be improved even more over time. And the fact that we paid a buttload of money for the MixApp (that’s buttload in comparison of the free apps from all the competitors) should be a reason for the devs to go at least as far as the other apps go in terms of features. If Behringer can do effects for free on an app for a mixer costing a third of an iLive T system, we should have that too for our >80 bucks, right? That’s all I’m saying…

[Jens-DroesslerParticipant]

@ tendersound: The second problem you mentioned with faders not responding… I know it. Had the same thing on a T80. Maybe the Cat.6 cable was to blame, but I sincerely doubt it, since the problem did not go away with any number of reboots both on iDR32 or T80. Levels were “glued” to the bottom, faders were freely moveable but ha dno effect on the levels. ALL of them! The levels were not changeable by editor on my notebook attached to the surface. Got me really into trouble. What resolved the situation was a tried infield reflashing of the firmware. It didn’t work, the editor responded with “update failed” or similar, but after the following reboot, everything worked just fine.

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