vu-meters on DCA

[jb07]

Why are there no led vu-meters on the DCAs?

[Mike C]

A DCA group has no audio actually flowing through it, it is control only.

[Dave Meadowcroft]

That doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be any metering. Anything that controls/groups audio should have metering regardless of whether it’s a real or virtual path.
Other manufacturers do this by showing the highest level of any source assigned to the DCA group which makes perfect sense to me.

[SteffenR]

Dave… we discussed this already… a long time ago…

and one statement from Keith was to not display any level as long as it could be wrong in regard to the real level
If you solo a DCA you send the signals to the solo bus and now you have metering that is correct, it shows a sum of the DCA members then.

I will try to find the old topic….

[SteffenR]

I found at least three topics…

Metering on DCA channels

Metering on DCA faders

DCA Meter

[Dave Meadowcroft]

I’ve just read those and there are some interesting points.

If it was highest level (MAX of all assigned sources), which is what makes most sense in this scenario, then no buses or summing is required and it is an extremely simple and quick calculation for any processor/controller to do. I don’t see how that could ever be considered ‘wrong in regard to the real level’.

I’m sure they already have a max function or similar coded into their metering that they use to determine peak for the existing multipoint metering that they could reuse.

[SteffenR]

for me it would be enough to have a signal present and an over indication that’s it
so if it’s doable, why not…

[jb07]

I watched a video on the midas m32, and I was surprised to see some vu-meters on the DCA. I put my DCA on the custom layer and suddenly I no longer have a vu-meter.

[SteffenR]

the Midas has no VU meter… just a PPM with the loudest signal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VU_meter

mostly we use PPM meters nowadays
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_programme_meter

[volounteer]

@SteffenR

Only if ‘we’ means parts of EU.
Many places still use VU meters.
Others use variations on PPM-VU type measurements.

PPMs were considered for use in the US, but rejected in favour of a ‘Standard Volume Indicator’ (VU meter) on grounds of cost. Joint research by CBS, NBC and Bell Labs found that using an experimental design of PPM (with a relatively long integration time of 25 ms) in the control of programme levels gave only a 1 dB advantage over the VU meter, in terms of average output level for a given amount of distortion. It was felt that this was too small to justify the much greater expense. It was also found that VU meters gave more consistent readings than PPMs

[SteffenR]

since the extended use of analog to digital conversation it is more common to use PPM
since these will detect overs much better than VU meters

nearly all modern digital consoles have multi function metering instruments available with the ability to configure the characteristics
but none of them uses VU characteristics as default

[jb07]

What bothers me is having a fader mounted and no signal present indicated.
Knowing that the level of an indicator will never be precise!

[SteffenR]

jb,
did you understand that the DCA carries no signal?
so normally there is no real signal to display

but I’m with you that there should be a signal present indication and an over indication

maybe @keithjah can chime in and give us a hint how A&H will deal with this in the future

[nottooloud]

Say my DCA controls 3 channels and a group. Each of those channels is also in other groups. The group levels are all different. What would you put on this meter? You already have hidden layer clipping indicators.

[SteffenR]

that’s the reason for my vote for a signal present and an over indication only
this would not show wrong values…

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