vu-meters on DCA

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This topic contains 15 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of jb07 jb07 4 months, 3 weeks ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 16 total)
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  • #96053
    Profile photo of jb07
    jb07
    Participant

    Why are there no led vu-meters on the DCAs?

    #96054
    Profile photo of Mike C
    Mike C
    Participant

    A DCA group has no audio actually flowing through it, it is control only.

    #96145
    Profile photo of Dave Meadowcroft
    Dave Meadowcroft
    Participant

    That doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be any metering. Anything that controls/groups audio should have metering regardless of whether it’s a real or virtual path.
    Other manufacturers do this by showing the highest level of any source assigned to the DCA group which makes perfect sense to me.

    #96147
    Profile photo of SteffenR
    SteffenR
    Participant

    Dave… we discussed this already… a long time ago…

    and one statement from Keith was to not display any level as long as it could be wrong in regard to the real level
    If you solo a DCA you send the signals to the solo bus and now you have metering that is correct, it shows a sum of the DCA members then.

    I will try to find the old topic….

    #96150
    Profile photo of SteffenR
    SteffenR
    Participant

    I found at least three topics…

    Metering on DCA channels

    Metering on DCA faders

    DCA Meter

    #96152
    Profile photo of Dave Meadowcroft
    Dave Meadowcroft
    Participant

    I’ve just read those and there are some interesting points.

    If it was highest level (MAX of all assigned sources), which is what makes most sense in this scenario, then no buses or summing is required and it is an extremely simple and quick calculation for any processor/controller to do. I don’t see how that could ever be considered ‘wrong in regard to the real level’.

    I’m sure they already have a max function or similar coded into their metering that they use to determine peak for the existing multipoint metering that they could reuse.

    #96153
    Profile photo of SteffenR
    SteffenR
    Participant

    for me it would be enough to have a signal present and an over indication that’s it
    so if it’s doable, why not…

    #96154
    Profile photo of jb07
    jb07
    Participant

    I watched a video on the midas m32, and I was surprised to see some vu-meters on the DCA. I put my DCA on the custom layer and suddenly I no longer have a vu-meter.

    #96160
    Profile photo of SteffenR
    SteffenR
    Participant

    the Midas has no VU meter… just a PPM with the loudest signal
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VU_meter

    mostly we use PPM meters nowadays
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_programme_meter

    #96161
    Profile photo of volounteer
    volounteer
    Participant

    @SteffenR

    Only if ‘we’ means parts of EU.
    Many places still use VU meters.
    Others use variations on PPM-VU type measurements.

    PPMs were considered for use in the US, but rejected in favour of a ‘Standard Volume Indicator’ (VU meter) on grounds of cost. Joint research by CBS, NBC and Bell Labs found that using an experimental design of PPM (with a relatively long integration time of 25 ms) in the control of programme levels gave only a 1 dB advantage over the VU meter, in terms of average output level for a given amount of distortion. It was felt that this was too small to justify the much greater expense. It was also found that VU meters gave more consistent readings than PPMs

    #96172
    Profile photo of SteffenR
    SteffenR
    Participant

    since the extended use of analog to digital conversation it is more common to use PPM
    since these will detect overs much better than VU meters

    nearly all modern digital consoles have multi function metering instruments available with the ability to configure the characteristics
    but none of them uses VU characteristics as default

    #96176
    Profile photo of jb07
    jb07
    Participant

    What bothers me is having a fader mounted and no signal present indicated.
    Knowing that the level of an indicator will never be precise!

    #96177
    Profile photo of SteffenR
    SteffenR
    Participant

    jb,
    did you understand that the DCA carries no signal?
    so normally there is no real signal to display

    but I’m with you that there should be a signal present indication and an over indication

    maybe @keithjah can chime in and give us a hint how A&H will deal with this in the future

    #97175
    Profile photo of nottooloud
    nottooloud
    Participant

    Say my DCA controls 3 channels and a group. Each of those channels is also in other groups. The group levels are all different. What would you put on this meter? You already have hidden layer clipping indicators.

    #97214
    Profile photo of SteffenR
    SteffenR
    Participant

    that’s the reason for my vote for a signal present and an over indication only
    this would not show wrong values…

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