Talk Back Mic Assign per Aux

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This topic contains 11 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Wolfgang Wolfgang 3 weeks ago.

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  • #108332
    Profile photo of drummingbacon
    drummingbacon
    Participant

    Context: We use a dLive S7000 console with a DM64 for our FOH and also run our bands IEMs off the same console. I know, I know, but a full second console wasn’t in the budget, and we can’t staff a weekly monitor engineer. The worship team each have an iPad that they are able to use to control their individual IEMs (Qty. (8) Stereo Shure PSM1000) via One Mix which works really well for us 99% of the time. I use the soft buttons on the side of the console for quick access to their stereo Aux sends and can help them mix their ears fairly quickly when needed.

    Question: When I setup the talk back mic, there is only an option for gain on the talk back mic input and that’s it. Depending on where my team sets their master on their Stereo Aux Mix and where they set the volume on their PT10 body pack, my talk back mic is too quiet for some people, and practically deafening for others. Is there a way to adjust the “non-existent fader” for the Talk Back Mic independently for each Aux/Stereo Aux?

    Please ask any clarifying questions if my notes don’t make sense.

    #108343
    Profile photo of Jgrift
    Jgrift
    Participant

    This would be a nice feature! I currently get around this by creating a talkback group. Which does have individual level control to aux sends.

    #108349
    Profile photo of SteffenR
    SteffenR
    Participant

    Assign the mic to a channel? We do this since 35+ years now on monitor consoles.

    #108356
    Profile photo of Dave
    Dave
    Participant

    I bring my talkback back on a channel and let them set their level however they want.

    #108418
    Profile photo of drummingbacon
    drummingbacon
    Participant

    Jgrift: Yea thats what I am doing currently as well. I have my FOH talkback in a Group all by itself (with a compressor) and a few Worship Leader talkbacks (with Mic Mute Stomp Pedals) in another group (also with a compressor) and then those two groups are labeled and accessible from their iPads. It has worked really well for us, my only issue is I can’t talk to an individual band member, I have to talk to all of them as a group each time. For example, if my comment is for the drummer, I don’t necessarily need everyone to hear it, I just want to say something really quick to the drummer. They have 12 different talk back groups built into the console, but I can’t select their individual outputs, I have to select the FOH Talkback Group I have created.

    SteffenR/Dave: I have considered this, but then I am not able to use the talk back buttons as soft assign buttons. I currently use the last three soft keys as FOH talkback unmute buttons (press and hold, NOT toggle). Button (24) is for Worship and Production Teams, button (25) is for Production Team Only, and button (26) is for Worship Team Only. This also would leave me with the issue above, when I used the talk back mic, everyone would hear me.

    Thanks for the feedback!

    #108442
    Profile photo of Jgrift
    Jgrift
    Participant

    Thats a pretty complex setup. I use TB assignments a lot to talk to band vs my shout channel to other engineers. But have not really ever needed to talk to individual musicians.

    One think I wish A&H would do is make the pickoff point for the TB bus (and each TB group) post talk button. If this was available as a source for an input you could just have a bunch of inputs to do this. I think the issue for them is that the TB section would need lots of buses to do this and carve a bunch processing out.

    If you have budget take a look at Glensound products. They have a range of Dante based com boxes. They have a panel with 16 buttons which could be assigned in this way.

    #108556
    Profile photo of Dave
    Dave
    Participant

    SteffenR/Dave: I have considered this, but then I am not able to use the talk back buttons as soft assign buttons. I currently use the last three soft keys as FOH talkback unmute buttons (press and hold, NOT toggle). Button (24) is for Worship and Production Teams, button (25) is for Production Team Only, and button (26) is for Worship Team Only. This also would leave me with the issue above, when I used the talk back mic, everyone would hear me.

    How many spare auxes/inputs do you have? The dLive supports up to 12 “Talkback Groups” — you could route each of the first three to different auxes and then bring them back to different channels (if necessary). You can assign the last three SoftKeys to whichever Talkback Groups you want. You can even have some be latching and some momentary.

    #108732
    Profile photo of Wolfgang
    Wolfgang
    Participant

    I would recommend here to consider the talkback signal in the individual aux paths as a kind of reference volume.
    So you speak into the talkback mic and send the same level to all IEM paths. Alternatively, you could also play a music signal at the same level everywhere. The musicians should then adjust the respective master levels of the IEM to this level.

    Then the musicians should simply mix in their signals at the volume that suits them.

    Actually, this is a matter of course. You have to set the appropriate amplification factor for all playback paths, and a reference signal is very helpful here. You can also do it with a 1 kHz level tone, but the musicians don’t like that very much 😉

    In any case, this is a better way to get the talkback level at a similar level for everyone.

    #108733
    Profile photo of Wolfgang
    Wolfgang
    Participant

    By the way, there is another solution that would give the individual much more freedom:
    ME-1

    Here you can even adjust the talkback level individually in each unit.

    #108734
    Profile photo of Thad
    Thad
    Participant

    The ME-1s are great, but they don’t escape the downside OP is experiencing: you can’t talk to musicians individually.

    #108855
    Profile photo of Chris
    Chris
    Participant

    I know sound engineers have different philosophies when it comes to methodology, but here is how I handle my talkback situation. I have a good ‘ole SM58 connected to an actual channel. I do this so I can have the capability to talk in the house if needed and all of the versatility that comes with that as I can control that completely separately. I have an AUX dedicated for Talkback and apply that AUX to my main Talkback group. In the Talkback settings I assign the mic in the Source Select section. That gives me the capability to utilize the talk button on the console. I send that AUX to our ME-1’s. It don’t give the mic volume in the AUX as the talkback has a separate source preamp and the audio gets sent to the AUX regardless. I set my gain in the source select settings, and I use the a limiter on the AUX to keep me from getting too loud. I wouldn’t use compression as it could raise the noise floor in their ears and we really don’t want that. Yes, it technically is a waste of an AUX, but I prefer this setup for versatility.

    Yes, I cannot talkback to individuals but it is really rare that I need to firstly, and secondly, I have an MD that handles all of my issues/requests on stage. He is the ultimate authority on stage and we have a great relationship where he will prioritize these requests. He handles stage, I handle the house. It minimizes disruptions and I actually get quicker responses. Again, this is more of a philosophy and may not apply to all situations, but that is just my 2 cents.

    #108898
    Profile photo of Wolfgang
    Wolfgang
    Participant

    I do it almost exactly like Chris.
    Thank you for this good explanation!

    The only difference with me: I don’t use an aux for this, but a mono matrix. I also use a different microphone 😉
    But that’s it with the differences.

    @thad:
    when using the ME-1, it is also possible to use different Marixes or Aux to assign each musician their own talk send. The console system has a lot of busses, maybe you have a few free for this application.
    Then you assign only the appropriate talk path in each ME-1. In the console, you can then freely decide whether you want to speak to one, a group or to all at the same time.

    Translated with http://www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

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