How many WDM devices?

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This topic contains 12 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of TomberWolf TomberWolf 6 months, 2 weeks ago.

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  • #99713
    Profile photo of TomberWolf
    TomberWolf
    Participant

    Dear community, dear A&H support team,

    I’m searching for a new digital mixer for my home recording and streaming setup.
    Beside ASIO I need at least 4 stereo playback and 4 stereo recording devices via WDM in Windows 10.

    Could somebody tell me if the QU-16 or the QU-24 mixer provide that?

    Thanks and best regards

    Tom

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    #99716
    Profile photo of Brian
    Brian
    Participant

    This isn’t the official Allen and Heath support portal. Of course there may be users that can answer your question and it is appropriate to post it here. That being said, if you haven’t already, I would urge you to submit a support ticket through the main website in which you ask this question. http://support.allen-heath.com/

    #99717
    Profile photo of TomberWolf
    TomberWolf
    Participant

    Thanks for the hint, Brian.

    #99724
    Profile photo of volounteer
    volounteer
    Participant

    Sounded more like a win10 question than one for AH.

    The support portal is just a few docs and videos plus a link to submit a ticket.
    There is no support like AH provides here in the forum.

    The OP did not have a problem needing a trouble ticket to AH , but was asking a marketing related question to decide to buy.

    #99725
    Profile photo of volounteer
    volounteer
    Participant

    How does AH know about Windoze Device Manager ?

    AH knows usb , serial inputs , not what windoze does internally.
    Ask the windows forum how to send those WDM devices to a serial out or a usb out.

    #99726
    Profile photo of TomberWolf
    TomberWolf
    Participant

    I don’t know why you’re always talkin about asking in a windows forum.
    This is just a driver feature and it’s ONLY providable by the manufacturer.
    If you take a look at other manufacturers, they all are able to do that (Soundcraft for example).

    Please stop talking about things you’re don’t know about anything.

    #99732
    Profile photo of volounteer
    volounteer
    Participant

    Insult noted.
    Stop being a bully.
    I know a lot more than your insults allow for.

    WMD is a windoze issue.

    AH does not do windoze except for providing a driver which does what it does.
    They do claim it is WDM ‘compliant’ for whatever that means.

    https://drivers.softpedia.com/get/Other-DRIVERS-TOOLS/Others/Allen-and-Heath-Qu-24-Digital-Mixer-ASIO-WDM-Driver-3200.shtml
    or choose any of the old ones here

    Qu Series

    Try the driver. Either it solves your problem or it does not.
    You might try ASIO or other drivers if WMD fails you and the AH driver does not fix your problem.

    As for the Qu it knows nothing about windoze and it talks usb or channel inputs.

    #99735
    Profile photo of TomberWolf
    TomberWolf
    Participant

    Could you please just ignore my postings? Thanks

    #99736
    Profile photo of volounteer
    volounteer
    Participant

    WTF is your problem.

    I showed you the drivers.
    Just try them and see what they will do for you.

    AH does not do WDM.
    You use their driver that is ‘compliant’ or ‘compatible’ with WDM but they do not talk to WDM from the Qu.

    #99744
    Profile photo of Mfk0815
    Mfk0815
    Participant

    @tomberwolf
    I do not own a QU but as far as the driver related document https://www.allen-heath.com/media/Qu-Windows-driver-Help-V4.86.0.pdf tells us there is only one stereo send to the computer and three stereo returns from the computer available for the QU.
    And you are right, WDM supports some features but only the driver from the manufacturer of the audio interface decides which and how many of these WDM features are supported.

    #99746
    Profile photo of KeithJ A&H
    KeithJ A&H
    Moderator

    @tomberwolf

    Though you probably know most of this already…

    The bi-directional, multichannel Qu USB-B interface carries between 24 and 32 channels from the Qu to the computer and between 22 and 32 channels from the computer to the Qu, depending on model.
    With a Mac, no drivers are required or used, the Qu is a Class Compliant device and channels are accessed by macOS or directly by applications.
    The Windows driver has two parts:
    ASIO – Effectively a single instance direct connection to the device with access to all USB input/output channels. Lower latency, managed by the driver but many app’s/DAW’s also include some control of ASIO devices, meaning settings such as buffer settings can be ‘overwritten’ depending on which app is being used.
    WDM – This has an extra ‘layer’ if you like, and is managed by Windows. Meaning (in theory) that any Windows application with audio has access. It is generally used only for system sounds and some playback. Multiple applications can use the same WDM ‘device’ at once.
    To clarify (as you said “beside ASIO”, both sides of the driver are accessing the same Qu USB channels, just in slightly different ways.

    Partially to avoid confusion and partially due to the way USB patching works with Qu (Qu USB outputs are freely patchable, Qu USB inputs are connected to the matching channel number), the WDM side of the Windows driver is set up as:
    1x Stereo input device – Fed from USB channels 17&18 to match Qu-Drive stereo record patching, which by default are sourced from the Main LR mix. This means for a basic recording with a ‘non-pro’/’non-ASIO’ app, you would simply install the driver, select ‘Qu’ as the input device and will get what you might expect (a stereo output from the Qu). By changing the patching to USB channels 17&18 though, you can of course choose what’s being sent.
    3x Stereo output devices – These get sent to different channels depending on the Qu model you are using, but are always the last 6 channels (in pairs). With a Qu-16 or Qu-24, these feed stereo input channels, with a Qu-32 core (Qu-32, Qu-Pac, Qu-SB) they feed channels 27-32.

    So I’m afraid the answer to your question is no – the WDM devices on the Qu were set up with the majority of use cases in mind and in a way that avoids as much head scratching as possible. Having more WDM devices for Qu could be added to the feature suggestions section for future consideration, and there’s certainly more of an argument for it with the huge increase in streaming and use of multiple apps that you are no doubt describing, but we would have to carefully consider any impact on the thousands of perhaps less experienced or less technical engineers this might affect.

    The other options would be either the SQ range, which has 4x stereo input and 4x stereo output WDM devices available or to use an app to access and route the ASIO channels.

    Thanks,
    Keith.

    #99748
    Profile photo of SteffenR
    SteffenR
    Participant

    @tomberwolf

    what is your DAW? Maybe you can use the ASIO drivers instead.

    #99751
    Profile photo of TomberWolf
    TomberWolf
    Participant

    Hi guys,

    thanks for your hints and respondings.
    My DAW supports ASIO, so while I work with the DAW, I use the ASIO drivers.

    My main workflow is based on WASAPI / WDM devices, connected to my Windows PC. These devices need to be routed to the virtual sound devices, provided by the mixer.

    Example: We have two teachers in a workshop, both of them use their own mic. Additonally we use three USB devices that let us choose an audio device, connected to the PC. As you can see at my firt post, I’ve attached an example from a Soundcraft Signature 12MTK mixer. That one provides multiple playback and recording devices for it’s faders, so tha you can mix and route them to the main out of the mixer.

    Sorry for the complicated explaination. I hope you can get the point. 😂

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