[HughParticipant]

I have a 24/8 with my DX12.
Hugh

[HughParticipant]

That is good timely Information, thank you SteffenR. jerimiah Cleaver with Waves set up my Waves card several years ago and established the Digigrid/Waves LV1 protocol to use my DX32 primes and SQ5 for all of my front end Waves studio capture. I recently bought two M-AIN D-Live pre amp banks and when configuring all of the patching required for both Live SR and the Waves card I reviewed Keith’s 1 min U-Tube Video.
The reason I posted the Waves vs SQ patching clarification request is to ask Keith to consider a more detailed video that delineates the difference between basic SQ patching (that is certainly “Layer specific”) in that the A layer is dedicated to the SQ5’s 16 internal inputs so all ancillary S-Link inputs will not have a sequential relationship: like they do with the patching with a waves card.
Thank you again for your helpful post SteffenR.
hugh

[HughParticipant]

If you do not understand the question, please do not offer input definitions. Perhaps Keith will be able to provide the appropriate answer.
Hugh

[HughParticipant]

Run tie lines of the raw pre amp capture and he can post produce for his video recording as much as he wants with his own gear. In the event you are needed for the additional video mix, give him an estimate of your billing for this additional process.
(chances are your best bet is to end your involvement with providing the raw pre amp output with a gain structure he finds acceptable)
Hugh

[HughParticipant]

Truth told gain structure involves more than the console alone: the capabilities of a companion speaker system plays a critical role in the need to push input gain at the console. When a, similar to the CQ desk, budget friendly speaker system is deployed at a noisy gig nothing beneficial can come from it.
Unfortunately this conundrum is prevalent with many start up bands and acceptance of the fact that their role of providing elevator music is impossible to overcome with additional DBs: be an increase from either the desk or more powerful speakers.
The amount of speaker delivery power needs to be calibrated with a given venue’s nomenclature and adjusted pursuant to need with the speakers: never beyond the optimum gain level set at the console!
Hugh

[HughParticipant]

to a glyph external HD captures live concert multi track performances direct from the SQ5’s DX32 prime pres. Truth told the direct SQ5 Stereo audio feed to my Video recorder of concert and studio work is generally well within my quality bar of acceptance. The SQ5 with Prime pres is the best studio front end available at any price. The ability to craft detailed individual custom mixes for individual performer cueing while printing just the un processed prime pre output is an ideal starting point for a great recording.

I have a 50+ year history of performing, producing and SR management for some of the best Bluegrass singer/musicians to entertain an audience anywhere: this is what I know. There is a huge difference between the must do mandatory single shot check list of live SR and the obvious segmented layers of studio production. To this end the huge Waves library of plugins are wonderful tools for trial and error post production in studio work, however they may be technical “rabbit holes” for some folks trying to sublimate plugin filtering for sub par gear or performances.
Hugh

[HughParticipant]

At this point the only device that A&H has authorized to house the “Primes is the DX32: It has a 4K price point and will house 4 banks of IN & Outs that can be primes or analog D-Live banks along with two other types of ancillary connectivity available. It is very apparent to me that A&H is determined to maintain tight control of deployment of their unique high quality Prime I/Os. The $350. per channel pre price point along with $165. per channel for the required housing presents a whopping $500+ per channel expense for the I?Os that are apparently optimized for FPGA processing. It is highly unlikely the primes will be available for anything resembling open deployment that would derail their market movement to leadership in sonic quality led by the new Digico Quantum console. At that level dante is probably not on the menu.
Hugh

[HughParticipant]

I respect questions pursuant to evaluating the existing options in audio gear: better to get clarification of limitations and advantages before your actual purchase.

1) With that said the primary question you need to resolve is whether or not a 48 channel input limit will meet your present, and likely future, needs.
2) If so the SQs are absolutely your best option. The next decision is how many faders do you really need to manage up to 48 inputs? Given the fact that grouping and DCAs are available with the layers why would anyone really need more than the SQ5s 16 faders?
3) Will sound reinforcement be your main activity or is providing the front end for project studio work a definite possibility.

For studio work either a Waves card or a Dante card will be needed to conduct detailed studio work. (There are a significant number of ancillary devices that need to be acquired to properly implement either option) If IEM monitoring options for live performance will be needed the GX4816 will be your best bet to work with a SQ5 when either a Waves or Dante card is deployed in it’s single port.
I have a waves card in my SQ5 and deploy a DX32 with 8 Prime I/Os and two banks of M-AIN D-Live pres. However I cannot facilitate the ME protocol for IEM monitoring. This is the gear that best suits my work flow however your needs will dictate the gear you actually need.
Hugh

[HughParticipant]

Keith clarified the DX pre question two months ago in response to my inquiry pursuant to the analog M-Ain 8 channel pre-amp banks for a DX32. “ALL DX & GX pres are D-Live pres: however the “PRIME” I/Os are uniquely designed to deliver a new world standard in detail and transparency. The improved performance comes with a 400% increase in price (D-Live pres $87.per channel vs Primes $350. per channel) Street price points verify the uniformity: a pair of Analog M-AIN pre 8 channel banks are $1,400. with an 8 channel bank of M-AOUT outputs @ $500 you are exactly at the $1,899 street price of a DX168.

Scott mentioned the primary advantage oF a GX4816: ME monitoring can be generated direct on stage thru the GX4816!
Hugh

[HughParticipant]

Over the past two months I have pondered the available entry level digital desk offerings and some of the not so entry level price point products that A&H and Yamaha have introduced. An important part of this research deals with following the CQ, SQ, and Solo forum posts with particular attention to various software features available with other models or brands. The Yamaha DM3 that peter now loves better that the SQ5 is nowhere close to the older SQ5 in terms of sonic quality, expansion potential and more importantly processing flexibility.
The new CQ line is absolutely a high quality entry level bargain option @ it’s 1K price point: however there is a lot of discussion about third party tactile controls that pretty much reduces it’s “mixing on glass” efficiencies. However it’s primary limitation is the same as the DM3: there is no provision for expansion stage boxes.
The Avantis “solo” is a 64 input channel design and it is priced accordingly: so once again perhaps A&H would be well advised to add another choice filling the gap between the CQ/DM3 and the “SOLO”. An Avantis Mini desk offering a 32 input channel design with 8 faders and a master fader with 4 layers. 8 onboard pres and 4 onboard outputs with S-Link to accommodate DX expansion stage boxes. Most all of the SQ5, or probably better, ancillary functionality would be needed. None of know whether or not any major firmware upgrade will be advanced for the SQ5s that we all used to love, and some folks like me still do.
The CQ is a home run for the market it is designed to fit: however it is a long way from the needs and flexibility of a small footprint professional tool to manage todays SR challenges and in all fairness the DM3 is marginally better however it carries more than twice the price point.
Hugh

[HughParticipant]

I went through a long look at the Solo because it offered a couple of attractive features, (Tactile structure & large comprehensive screen) but in a final analysis the Solo did not offer an appreciable upgrade from my SQ5 equipped with a waves card. I never will need to deploy 64 inputs so the 48 I currently have available in the SQ5 is way more than sufficient for my work flow. The deal breaker for me was the V3 Waves card $2,500 price point, with a 6 month back order, that did not offer any thing I need beyond the $600. Waves card I use every day in my SQ5. After much Q&A with Brian it became very clear to me that my SQ5 is now the most appropriate gear for my work flow: Unfortunately our Info exchange did not personally end well.

To their credit, A&H does not abandon many of their older products like many of their competitors do. Most are still in the catalog and are fully supported. SQuser has offered some well thought out observations that cast a pragmatical light on the long and in some cases persistent wish lists we see every day in this forum. This post brings to mind the old Henry Ford line “give them any color they want as long as it’s black” comes to mind. The digital age has created a possibility of greatly reducing yesterdays obsolescence marketing.
At this point I personally would prefer a varied selection of hardware configurations that the user could equip with a defined number of software features available for purchase when needed. Sizing your Hardware purchase to fit anticipated input and processing loads would be the initial primary factors to consider.
Hugh

[HughParticipant]

Keith has provided some very informative you-tube infomercials pursuant to the “Gain assist” tool offered in the CQ line. I never was left with a notion that it is a substitute for dynamic range control that the internal compressor and/or limiter are well designed to accomplish. Apparently it’s primary function is establishing a very quick & accurate initial gain structure: not dynamic range control.
Hugh

[HughParticipant]

Contained within the “Bunch of useless Information” that, in your opinion, really doesn’t matter and no one cares about is the following info;

1) The Avantis requires a $2,500. V3 version of Waves card that at this point is 9 months away from availability: pursuant to Waves in Knoxville, TN: this uncertainty is a big deal for Waves owners world wide. Using FPGA processing in an A&H desk is an ideal front end capture that can provide custom artist cueing for anyone running a Waves LV1 Studio recording system.
2) IMO, A solo with the D-Live FX package doesn’t have a pressing live performance need for waves plug ins and that apparently is the primary additional function of the V3 waves card when it becomes available.
3) The number of potential desk buyers that will never need more that 24 inputs and 8 outputs is not a known number, however given the amount of live gig interest in these threads my guess is it is greater that the large channel count practitioners. I seldom ever use more that 8 channels in or out so why purchase and carry a 48/16 capacity when my DX32 can offer 24/16.
4) You delineated two plausible alternatives for the “More me” IEM folks in your first post in this thread. Since my interest in these protocols was more of a casual courtesy than a high priority I am very comfortable leaving the A&H IEM protocol on the table and pursuing one of those options when they are needed

Brian, be very careful assuming an infallible attitude pursuant your well read advice: we all walk is shoes that may or may not fit your feet.
Hugh

[HughParticipant]

Brian, the possible need for an IEM protocol for my live SR activities would be a courtesy consideration for a few of the better Bluegrass bands that rely upon them. I greatly prefer my carefully prepared EX10 wedge to any Individual “More Me” system for my live gigs.
The waves card I now have in my SQ5 is using tie lines to deliver pre only capture to my Digigrid/Waves system. I have developed a highly productive layered recording protocol that is centered around a custom tailored HP cue mix from the SQ5 that is not printed on the recording. In the event a band capture is occurring, only the session leader gets a cue mix. The band must listen to each other, with out electronic assistance, to render the best possible performance. An IEM protocol is not needed or wanted for my studio recordings but the waves card connection is essential.
I will be adding 16 more pre-amps to my DX32 and selling my DX168. Either primes or the much less expensive M-AIN analog version or a combination of both will give me 24 ins and 8 outs. It will totally depend on the quality of the M-AIN bank of 8 analog pre-amps. I have asked A&H support for the specific origin of the 8 pre analog bank: If they are the same as my DX168 D-Live or the Digico “D” pres in my Waves/Digigrid system I will go all analog, but at this point A&H is not talking.
Hugh

[HughParticipant]

I have determined the V3 Waves card is a deal killer for me. Over the past 10 years I have developed a close relationship with the Waves technical staff in Knoxville,TN and after a log discussion with them this morning I have decided stay with the SQ5 and park any notion to up-grade to a Solo.

1) I already have in my SQ5 the right Waves card to perfectly fit my working recording needs.
2) The new V3 Waves card has at this point a 9 month or greater delivery delay as well as a $2,500. price point for bells and whistles that I do not need.
3) I will add two more banks of input pre-amps to my DX32. and sell my DX168. the additional pres will either be primes or maybe the much less expensive M-AIN analog version: dependent upon which bin the Analog pres came from.

I really would love to have the big screen and detailed Solo functionality along with their perfect fader lay out: but alas it ain’t gona fundamentally work for me. As it Turns out the grass really isn’t greener on the Solo side of the fence today.
Hugh

[Author]

Posts