Scene/Show Storage

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This topic contains 14 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of SteffenR SteffenR 2 weeks, 2 days ago.

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  • #103456
    Profile photo of Mr.X
    Mr.X
    Participant

    Is it true that Scenes and Shows are stored on the Surface and not in the MixRack?
    If so, if I have director and a Surface connected to a MixRack, the scene list may not match?
    If so, what happens when I have a surface and Director connected and I recall a show on the Surface? Do the scenes now appear in Director?

    #103461
    Profile photo of msteel
    msteel
    Participant

    This is what I think happens, based on my experiments. I might not have everything straight, so if I’m wrong, someone please feel free to correct me.

    * Show files are stored in the Surface (or Director?)
    * Loading a show file loads the scene data into the Mix rack and/or Surface scene lists. It appears to me that each component has its own internal scene storage – Mix Rack scenes contain mix engine data, Surface scenes contain surface data.
    * Scene recall is linked so that recalling a scene on a surface or mix rack triggers a recall on the others in the system – except that there may be surface role filters, etc. that limit snapshot recall on certain components and/or parameters.

    #103462
    Profile photo of Mr.X
    Mr.X
    Participant

    So, does the MixRack have scenes on it’s own then?

    #103466
    Profile photo of msteel
    msteel
    Participant

    Yes,
    Once a show has been loaded into the Mix Rack, there is at least mix engine data for scened stored there.
    This data appears to persist even if the Mix Rack power is turned off and then back on.

    Here is the procedure I used to conclude this:

    * I used a C2500 surface connected to a CDM64 Mix Rack to set up some scenes that bring a mic channel up and down.
    * I powered off all surfaces connected to the Mix Rack.
    * I sent TCP MIDI commands to the CDM64 to recall the scenes.
    * I verified that the sceness were recalled as expected.
    -> Since no surface was powered on, the only place the scene data could have been active was inside the Mix Rack itself.
    * I powered the CDM64 off, and then back on again
    * Once mix rack began accepting TCP Midi connections again, I was still able to recall scenes that way.
    -> So the data appears to survive a power cycle.

    This makes sense, since one of the applications for the dLive system is an installed system without a “surface” using IP controllers and/or third party automation products.

    #103467
    Profile photo of msteel
    msteel
    Participant

    Back to your original question about Director – I have not used Director yet, but according to the “Understanding Multi Surface” document:

    “When Director is connected in MixRack Only mode, any of the available Surface Roles can be assigned to Director without impacting any of the other Surfaces.
    When Director is connected in Surface and MixRack mode, Director will inherit the Surface Role of the connected Surface. Any changes to the Surface Role will be followed by both Director and the Surface.”

    So, it sounds like there are two ways Director can be connected:
    * Mix Rack and Surface Mode – Where Director will essentially connect to a surface and act like an extension of that surface. In that case I would expect all scenes to be shared.
    * Mix Rack Only Mode – where Director will essentially connect to the Mix Rack and act like a second surface. In that case, it is possible to split the 500 scene memories so that the Surface will “own” some and Director will “own” the others, just like a system with two physical surfaces.

    #103473
    Profile photo of Mr.X
    Mr.X
    Participant

    Once mix rack began accepting TCP Midi connections again, I was still able to recall scenes that way.
    -> So the data appears to survive a power cycle.

    Interesting. I always figured it DIDN’T store scenes because the iPad app doesn’t allow storage or recall of scenes.

    So, when you store a scene using a surface, does it store into the surface AND into the MixRack? Can these get out of sync so that if a surface is connected with a different set of scenes than the MixRack, and you recall a scene using MIDI/TCP, which scene gets recalled?

    Is there any official documentation on how scenes and shows are stored on the dLive system?

    #103480
    Profile photo of SteffenR
    SteffenR
    Participant

    https://www.allen-heath.com/media/Understanding-Multi-Surface-ISS1.pdf

    this document gives some insights on the scenes and shows

    #103487
    Profile photo of RS
    RS
    Participant

    Now with “Power-up Mixrack scene” in firmware 1.9, there might be more to look into. Not exactly sure, just a heads-up, as I am not into that new function myself…

    #103500
    Profile photo of Mr.X
    Mr.X
    Participant

    <blockquotehttps://www.allen-heath.com/media/Understanding-Multi-Surface-ISS1.pdf

    this document gives some insights on the scenes and shows

    I’ve read this a few times, still not completely clear. What gets stored in the surface? What gets stored in the MixRack? When using more than 1 surface or a surface and Director, when I store a scene, do the scenes in the other surfaces get updated?

    I understand there are “surface only” recalls, but does that apply to director too?

    Could use a lot more detail on the specifics, especially what exactly is stored in the MixRack and what is stored in the surface(s)/Director.

    One more thought… if you had a MixRack full of scenes, and plugged in a surface with no scenes, will the MixRack scenes populate the surface?

    #103643
    Profile photo of Mr.X
    Mr.X
    Participant

    Still interested to find out how this all works exactly if anyone knows…

    #103656
    Profile photo of SteffenR
    SteffenR
    Participant

    @nicola

    Is there a document available with the requested information?
    If not, we should request a white paper on that topic… 😉

    #103803
    Profile photo of Nicola A&H
    Nicola A&H
    Keymaster

    msteel is spot on.

    Show files are stored in the Surface or Director.
    Scene data and current mix settings as follows:
    – Strip Layout, brightness/dimmer settings, Soft Rotary / SoftKeys assignments, MIDI fader settings are stored in the Surface
    – All other Scene data including channel name, colour, processing, routing, patch is stored in the MixRack

    To answer some of the questions:

    > So, when you store a scene using a surface, does it store into the surface AND into the MixRack?
    Yes, as per above.

    > Can these get out of sync so that if a surface is connected with a different set of scenes than the MixRack, and you recall a scene using MIDI/TCP, which scene gets recalled?
    MIDI/TCP controls the MixRack. If a Surface is connected, the same Scene number will be recalled on the Surface.
    Yes, potentially the two can be out of sync. The recommendation is to always recall a Show file first when you connect a Surface and MixRack which were not previously operating together. Recalling a Show file forces all correct Scene data to both Surface and MixRack, and ensures they are in sync.

    > When using more than 1 surface or a surface and Director, when I store a scene, do the scenes in the other surfaces get updated?
    No, the Scene data in the MixRack gets updated, but the Surface data is only updated by the local Surface instigating the Store.

    > I understand there are “surface only” recalls, but does that apply to director too?
    Yes, when running in MixRack only mode Director behaves like any other Surface with regards to multi-surface operation.

    > If you had a MixRack full of scenes, and plugged in a surface with no scenes, will the MixRack scenes populate the surface?
    You would see Scenes in the Scene list to indicate there is valid Scene data in those Scene memories. Again, recalling a Show file would ensure the Surface and MixRack data match.

    #103818
    Profile photo of SteffenR
    SteffenR
    Participant

    @nicola

    so I renew my request on a white paper regarding show and scene handling in the dLive
    or at least some additional information in the multi-surface documents…
    Would that be possible?

    #103833
    Profile photo of Nicola A&H
    Nicola A&H
    Keymaster

    Hi Steffen, I’ll add the info above to the firmware reference guide asap.

    #103836
    Profile photo of SteffenR
    SteffenR
    Participant

    thanks, that would be nice.

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