Driverack?

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This topic contains 9 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Rob Millar Rob Millar 7 years, 1 month ago.

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  • #37682
    Profile photo of GR-PDX
    GR-PDX
    Participant

    Hi, all,

    I am doing sound for my small band. Don’t think the instrumentation matters much, but it’s blues/R&B. I have the Qu-16, and I’m running 1-2 JBL PRX618 XLF’s as subs, with a pair of Yamaha DSR112s as tops. These will typically be stacked right on the subwoofer poles, and will use the crossover that is in the JBLs…I have no idea how good that really is.

    Especially now that the L/R Master has PEQ on it, I can get things sounding quite good! But I do wonder if there is more goodness to be had by trying to phase-align the tops with the subs, and both of those against the kick in particular. It would be really great if the Qu could have outputs that one could delay, and put some high- and low-pass filters on for this purpose. (Not mere obligatory Qu content there!)

    But barring that, I do end up wondering if a Driverack is a worthwhile investment? Or should I just get a decent crossover? I read online that the AutoEQ features are pretty useless except to help you initially derive a flat response from your system outdoors, so you have a better starting point indoors…but that you will still have to deal with room modes, etc. indoors. Still, I have a bit of a mix-and-match set of speakers, even if the Nexo processing on the DSR112s is great.

    I don’t know…what do you recommend?

    #37687
    Profile photo of SteffenR
    SteffenR
    Participant

    since the Yamahas are aktive you can delay the subwoofer or the tops with the Qu16 using a aux mix for feeding the subs…
    so in the near future no need for the d-rack
    side effect is that only real bass signals go to the subwoofer (if you do it the right way) your vocals will become more transparent (normally)

    #37694
    Profile photo of GR-PDX
    GR-PDX
    Participant

    Not sure I follow this, Steffen. I still have to have a crossover. I can use the one built into the subwoofers, but that means sending the main mix to both subs and tops.

    Can you elaborate a bit?

    #37705
    Profile photo of eotsskleet
    eotsskleet
    Participant

    @greiswig
    I think a driverack wouldn’t give you much more quality! I would suggest you to use the PEQ on your Qu-16 to tune the Main-Mix. If you would need to have a different delay for the subs and for the tops then you should follow the advise of steffenromeiss and use an AUX for either subs or tops! But if you have the PA Aligned (stacked) then you wan’t need a different delay! Maybe a delay for stage to PA distance! But you can set that on your Qu-16!
    you can achieve a really good corssover by use the built-in crossover of your subs! They will change around 90Hz from sub to top. The DSR112 should be set up without the HPF (because its at 120Hz) and without D-CONTOUR! D-COUNTOUR gives you the best SPL per frequency but it changes the sound depend on the volume!

    #37706
    Profile photo of GR-PDX
    GR-PDX
    Participant

    Okay thanks for this. It kind of confirms what I thought. I have no idea how good or bad the crossover is in the JBLs, and I had heard that it tended to be an upgrade to use a dedicated crossover. But I doubt most festival patrons would hear the difference.

    I did get a chance to work with delays on a different system recently, a permanent install. First we time aligned the mains and subs, and then we delayed both to the drum kit at the back of the stage. That was a pretty substantial improvement! Quite noticably tightened things up. I was surprised how much kick was coming through acoustically, even in this large venue with a deep stage.

    I can’t remember if the L/R Masters in the Qu have an overall delay…or how the auxes are fed. Ideally, you could delay one aux to align the sub, then just delay the full mix to line up with the backline, and it would just add to the aux delay.

    #37707
    Profile photo of eotsskleet
    eotsskleet
    Participant

    you can delay the MAIN L+R Output but you can’t delay an AUX depended on the L&R delay! But i thought that you use the top speakers with a pole to mount (stack) on the sub? So in my opinion there ist no need for delay between sub and top!?
    Take care if you delay the Main Speakers only to the Drums.. there are other musicians closer to the PA!

    #37712
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    Hello George. The later versions of the A&H wizard series use AUX as an AUX fed sub scenario. Where you can send just the content of what ever you choose to the subs and what ever else you want to the mid highs (speakers). ( Keep the vocals out of the subs and less of the kick and Bass guitar etc… out of the mid highs)
    So all you need to do is follow this pattern with the QU16. The QU16 has GEQ and compression on all outputs so you can craft your crossovers from there.
    I recently ran a QU16 to send to subs only and also center fill speakers and just used the GEQ as crossovers on the outputs. Worked extremely well.
    Also as eotsskleet stated I wouldn’t go delaying any drum foldback

    hope this helps
    davyd

    #37723
    Profile photo of GR-PDX
    GR-PDX
    Participant

    Dhak, thank you for taking the time to scan or draw that and post it here! I’ll have to take some time to try to interpret it; my guess is you aren’t actually using four Qu-16s. 😉

    I think I get the gist of what you’re saying, though: I should be able to assign things like kick and bass to one aux and to the Main L/R, and send that aux signal direct to the subs, complete with processing if need be. Then send everything else through the tops via the L/R, but put a high pass on the L/R mix?

    #37726
    Profile photo of eotsskleet
    eotsskleet
    Participant

    Dhak used several Qu-16 mixers for an event (take a look at his profile-picture) In your case you only need one Qu-16! There are several ways to use the Qu-16 for your setup! The easiest way is to use the HPF on your Sub! So just mix with the Qu-16 the L&R and plug this trough the Subs to the tops! I you wouldn’t use the HPF Filter then you need at minimum 2 Stereo Outputs.. for example AUX5+6 and L&R! Then you plug the subs into the AUX5+6 and only send those signals to AUX 5&6 that habe bass frequencies like Basedrum, Base, FloorToms etc.! Vocals and anything else you send to the L&R! Be careful.. a few instruments will have a frequency response from below 80Hz and up to 18kHz! So for specific channels you need enough send level on both: AUX 5+6 as well on L&R! Anyway… IMO you should only use the L&R Outputs and plug it through the Subs (with HPF enabled) to the tops! Fine settings with the PEQ or GEQ of the L&R Output Channel on Qu-16!

    #38313
    Profile photo of Rob Millar
    Rob Millar
    Participant

    I wouldn’t bother with the standard driverack unless you could afford a DBX driverack 260. Those things are crazy good and compliment any live set-up.

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