Adding a delayed LR mix tap for Church PA

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This topic contains 37 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of funkcity funkcity 6 years, 3 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 38 total)
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  • #45766
    Profile photo of funkcity
    funkcity
    Participant

    Qu-16
    Could be an easy one??
    I know I can do independent mixes: Mix LR,1,2,3,5&6 etc..
    But what I’d like to do is mix to L&R and send that exact mix
    to half way through the church with appropriate delay. (A delayed version)
    I would like this delayed mix to always follow the LR (FOH) mix.
    Is there a straight-forward way to do this in the Qu-16?
    Thanks!

    #45767
    Profile photo of Andreas
    Andreas
    Moderator

    Easy on Qu24/32 using Matrix or Groups, not so straightforward on the Qu16.
    Some options are:
    – use an external delay
    – externally route back the LR (maybe Alt Out) to some input (probably ST1/2) and feed one Mix from them
    – use a mix, set all channel sends to post fader and each fader to 0 position. No need for an external loopback but pans need to be mirrored

    #45768
    Profile photo of dpdan
    dpdan
    Participant

    The most simplest and convenient way is to use a stereo matrix.
    That way, your L/R stereo mix will be exactly the same and you would have control over the volume of the delays separately “if you wanted” also, when you raise and lower the Main L/R master, the matrix 1&2 outputs would also change. The amount of delay would be set in the two matrix outputs.

    #45769
    Profile photo of dpdan
    dpdan
    Participant

    Andreas, we were typing at the same time…:)
    Qu16 doesn’t have matrix or group outputs 🙁

    #45770
    Profile photo of cornelius78
    cornelius78
    Participant

    If you have a spare pair of mixes you could do it:

    Assign all channels that are in your LR mix (mono, stereo and FX returns) to this pair of mixes (should be already done by default.)

    Set this mix (pair) to tap the channels post fade (select the mix on the RHS, press and hold the pre/post button on the LHS, press the SEL buttons on all the channels so they dim, indicating the channel sends are post fade.

    Set all the send levels to unity, essentially making a subgroup.

    NB you may have to set the channel pans on mono channels manually. Make sure you turn the mix master up.

    Go to that mix pair’s processing.

    Dial in the delay you want (up to 170ms.)

    #45771
    Profile photo of dpdan
    dpdan
    Participant

    cornelius78,
    I think that would not work for him because the stereo master and it’s processing would not be reflected in the Aux (mix) output.

    Without matrix or groups that is the closest thing he could do.

    #45772
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    Brilliant!
    Thanks for the really simple explanation.

    #45773
    Profile photo of [XAP]Bob
    [XAP]Bob
    Participant

    You *can* do any of the above, but I’d recommend an external processor.

    Any output eq you apply will need to be replicated between the mixes, and the desk needs to be left well enough alone (might not be an issue, but this feels like an easy way to lose the repeat speakers.
    An external processor retains the desk process as a simple mixer, hiding the speaker configuration elsewhere.

    In either case you probably want to dial in a few feet(ms) more delay than you think, to maintain the illusion that all the sound is coming from the main speakers. (Few is ~<10, see Haas effect.)

    #45774
    Profile photo of funkcity
    funkcity
    Participant

    Good ideas! Thanks gang!
    What I’ll try when I get to it tomorrow is to:
    1. Assign LR output to the Alt out.
    2. Externally Patch Alt out to Stereo 2 in
    (I’d like NOT to patch externally but I believe the routing and internal patching will not support that.)
    3. Assign Stereo 2 in to a desired mix bus
    4. Adjust THAT mix bus for unity gain and proper delay

    I have played with the delay and I’ll be able to optimize.
    Then I’ll EQ the room.
    Stay tuned 🙂

    #45777
    Profile photo of [XAP]Bob
    [XAP]Bob
    Participant

    That works – you’re correct in that you’ll need to go analogue – the latency isn’t an issue.

    I’d recommend disabling the sends from everything else to your “delay” mix (I presume 9/10), since it’s just not needed.

    You do of course then gain the option of feeding some of the “overall mix” (from ST2) to things like a foyer mix -although you’ll almost certainly want to add more of the speech mics…

    #45778
    Profile photo of GCumbee
    GCumbee
    Participant

    I think a good future firmware update for QU16 would be ability to dump the LR directly into any or all of the stereo mix busses. It would just be a software menu item in the audio section.

    #45779
    Profile photo of [XAP]Bob
    [XAP]Bob
    Participant

    Would it be able to have other inputs sent to it?
    Would it take the Pre EQ, post EQ, post limiter? delay?

    Which features of the mix processing would be available?

    I agree, it could be a good feature, although I still believe that this case (like many others) would be better off supported by a speaker processor.
    I *do* wonder whether the ALT out could have an independent delay – that seems to be the most commonly requested feature, and should be computationally relatively cheap. Possibly the same on the AES out as well?

    #45780
    Profile photo of GCumbee
    GCumbee
    Participant

    I would like to keep it simple and just make it be LR mix pre EQ, Comp, delay. Would not want anything on the LR buss to be on this output. Let that be decided on the chosen output. Just a 1 page screen with pre everything LR button on for each stereo mix. 5-6, 7-8, 9-10.

    #45782
    Profile photo of GCumbee
    GCumbee
    Participant

    I do a lot of corporate events with the QU-16. This would be a Godsend as we have to feed alternate sends to different places. Some delayed. Some not.

    #45783
    Profile photo of [XAP]Bob
    [XAP]Bob
    Participant

    Your case has merit – I opened a thread in the feature request section, you might want to weigh in 😉

    Technically I suppose setting all channels to unity gain, post fade send to the extra mixes does the same job you’re looking for – it might even be that that is how the “I want L&R duplicated here” is implemented???

    Just doesn’t follow the main fader. Maybe that need to be configurable as a DCA that includes the main fader???

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