Compression on Groups

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This topic contains 10 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of RayS RayS 8 years, 6 months ago.

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  • #23353
    Profile photo of mikefogg
    mikefogg
    Participant

    I’d like to apply compression to a number of stereo groups for e.g. a guitars group but can’ find a way UNLINK left and right within the compression app so this has the effect that if left gtr is compressed, the right will be also compressed. What am I missing? Is there a way to apply compression separately to left & right so as to maintain stereo dynamics? I’m using a t80 and idr48. Any suggestions anybody?
    Cheers, Mike

    #31709
    Profile photo of tk2k
    tk2k
    Participant

    Why are you not just compressing the source input channel before it goes to the group?

    I do not believe there is a way to have a dynamic applied to only one side of a stereo group…. you could just use two mono groups panned hard left and right

    iDR-48, T-112, Mixpad
    College

    #31710
    Profile photo of mikefogg
    mikefogg
    Participant

    Hi There, and thanks for the reply. I’m trying setup as per this Dave Rat link, Live Sound Mixing Strategy:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMMmR1u0CFk
    I can assign a DCA to all the Inputs and another DCA on all the Groups. This way I can push all inputs into compression to a greater or lesser degree depending on the song content and force a tighter more compressed mix on some songs but back it off on others all with 1 fader and still maintain the overall volume with the other DCA controlling the Groups to main.

    #31711
    Profile photo of mikefogg
    mikefogg
    Participant

    Don’t think I can ust use two mono groups panned hard left and right because:
    1. The idea is to have various sources (say for example a number of guitars, electro and DI’d acoustics) feeding one group which is then treated with compression.
    2. So if I used 2 mono groups, panned hard left and hard right, the level from the source to each of these groups is no longer controlled by the pan on the source but simply turned on or off using the mix button. Given that all the guitar sources would feed into both left and right mono groups, I’m back to square one in that all source effect any compression applied to the group by an equal amount.
    3. (And in the process I’ve lost the ability to PAN the sources)
    I think I might have to stick with the stereo group and compromise by tweaking on the sources when necessary. The Dave Rat idea sounded so slick as this maintains relative levels but always gives vocals space in top and yet give QUICK access to tighten up thinks when required. Unless anyone else can suggest an alternative.
    BTW – well chuft with the iLive in every respect – just wish I’d gone for the T112 for the extra faders.

    #31712
    Profile photo of CareyD
    CareyD
    Participant

    You could use two stereo groups panned hard left and right :)

    #31713
    Profile photo of mikefogg
    mikefogg
    Participant

    Hi Carey,
    But then I’m into 4 busses for one ‘guitar group’. Multiplying up for others + FX + AUX sends and I’m out busses.

    #31727
    Profile photo of dnxmirrorsounds
    dnxmirrorsounds
    Participant

    OK, its complex and a bit messy but possible…

    Groups: 2 x Mono; 5 x stereo
    FX: 8 x mono
    Aux 2 x Mono; 4 x stereo
    Matrix: 10 x Mono

    Bass into 1 mono group
    K/S into next mono group

    route your stereo group sources (Metal, toms, Guitars & Vox) into the 4 stereo groups with no processing so you can pan happily
    then feed the outputs of the groups into the mono Matrices and put your compression on the matrices.

    set your Matrices to DCA 11 and your DCA 10 for all channels.

    the problem is now combining these Matrices to FOH…
    assign the matrix outputs to individual outputs and patch (with XLR cables) these into input channels (you could also use surface connections for this).

    then route these “Matrix inputs” ONLY to the 5th stereo group and the out put of THAT is your FOH output.

    It would be a lot easier if there was a more sophisticated patching system. Alternatively you could use a Summing Console to bring all the matrices together.

    Also, consider where your FX returns are going to be routed especially the drum FX.

    Finally, you still have some Aux outputs for foldback / IEM, OB or whatever.

    “where there’s a will, there’s a way!”

    Duncan Whitcombe
    @Dnxmirrorsounds
    Mirror Sounds & metrochurch
    Perth, Australia
    T112, iDR48x2
    http://www.mirrorsounds.com.au
    http://www.metrochurch.org.au

    #31728
    Profile photo of mikefogg
    mikefogg
    Participant

    Hi Duncan,
    Wow, thanks for taking the time to work that one out. It would be nice to have an option for separate left/right compression within a group (much as I hate to winge). I’ve got a couple of events at the weekend and will do some experimenting.
    Cheers,
    Mike

    #31731
    Profile photo of ddff_lv
    ddff_lv
    Participant

    Mike,

    Don’t put too much effort and expectations to this. I’ve tried it couple of times, but the results didn’t pay all the complexicity. It’s good to experiment, but I find to better to stay with classic setup.

    ddff

    #31734
    Profile photo of dnxmirrorsounds
    dnxmirrorsounds
    Participant

    Actually, I rethought htis config and realised there is no way to assign the left of the stereo group only to the mono matrix so, you will have to go out from the outputs of the stereo groups and then the re-inputs can be fed to groups.

    Of course, as tk2k mentions the returns for this level of complexity may not be as good as you hope.

    It might work to have 1 level of groups and gang them only linking the compression so you can work it that way instead.

    What this exercise should do is encourage you to think about things in interesting ways and try new stuff and see what works.

    In that sense this has been a great exercise, thanks :)

    Duncan Whitcombe
    @Dnxmirrorsounds
    Mirror Sounds & metrochurch
    Perth, Australia
    T112, iDR48x2
    http://www.mirrorsounds.com.au
    http://www.metrochurch.org.au

    #31774
    Profile photo of RayS
    RayS
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by whitcodj

    Actually, I rethought htis config and realised there is no way to assign the left of the stereo group only to the mono matrix so, you will have to go out from the outputs of the stereo groups and then the re-inputs can be fed to groups.

    Of course, as tk2k mentions the returns for this level of complexity may not be as good as you hope.

    It might work to have 1 level of groups and gang them only linking the compression so you can work it that way instead.

    What this exercise should do is encourage you to think about things in interesting ways and try new stuff and see what works.

    In that sense this has been a great exercise, thanks :)

    Duncan Whitcombe
    @Dnxmirrorsounds
    Mirror Sounds & metrochurch
    Perth, Australia
    T112, iDR48x2
    http://www.mirrorsounds.com.au
    http://www.metrochurch.org.au


    This method would not work to the op’s liking mainly because of the latency ( extreme phasing) issues introduced by the multiple signal paths…….

    from the wiki : If the normal analog method is used for a digital compressor, the signals traveling through the parallel pathways will arrive at the summing mixer at slightly different times, creating unpleasant comb-filtering and phasing effects. In the digital domain, the two pathways must both have the same number of processing stages: the “straight” pathway is assigned a compression stage which is not given an aggressively high ratio. In this case, the two signals both go through compression stages, and both pathways are delayed the same amount of time, but one is set to do no dynamic range compression, or to do very little, and the other is set for high amounts of gain reduction

    Eventually one might take advantage of the parallel (new york) compression algorithm found on the ILive’s compressor page.

    RayS

    R-72/iDR32/iPS10

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