Scene ‘delay’ time and ‘tracking’

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This topic contains 8 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of parsen parsen 8 years, 9 months ago.

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  • #23301
    Profile photo of tk2k
    tk2k
    Participant

    Hi everyone,

    Been using our new iLive for about a week now, got a few questions for the masses.

    I know there are a lot of topics on scene management, how to do it, etc, and this is one of those, but with a few caveats.

    I support everything from live bands to orchestras to theater shows, all of my theater programing experience is digico or yamaha. In both of those cases, I’ve never really had to worry about ‘recall time’ its just fairly instantaneous.

    on the iLive, it seems to take more time? Is this accurite? at the very least the touchscreen seems occupied while the ‘system busy’ dialogue displays, but does that actually ‘lock up’ the whole console, or just the touch screen?

    Is there an equivalent of tracking, where I can tell the iLive not to recall a setting unless its changed?
    for example, I have an actor who puts on a large hat at one point which changes the characteristics of their mic, so I have a different EQ on them. Obviously there’s no point in recalling the same exact EQ for the 30+ scenes before I need that EQ, but I can’t remove the EQ from programing entirely as I do need it to change for one scene.

    Thanks

    #31333
    Profile photo of papromike
    papromike
    Participant

    You are probably hitting the “store all” button to save scenes, what you really should do is

    Store all your master setup, then just use the “update” on each subsequent scene change.. that way it only stores the updates on each scene.

    when you hit the store all, its re-storing everything, IP address settings, buss configs, user preferences, etc. there really is no need to do that and reloading all that stuff takes a bit of time.

    If you just do “updates” on each scene, it will snapshot instantaneously.

    Vice President of Sales
    Allen & Heath USA

    #31405
    Profile photo of PeterM
    PeterM
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by papromike

    You are probably hitting the “store all” button to save scenes, what you really should do is

    Store all your master setup, then just use the “update” on each subsequent scene change.. that way it only stores the updates on each scene.

    when you hit the store all, its re-storing everything, IP address settings, buss configs, user preferences, etc. there really is no need to do that and reloading all that stuff takes a bit of time.

    If you just do “updates” on each scene, it will snapshot instantaneously.

    Vice President of Sales
    Allen & Heath USA


    Hi Vice,

    That’s the problem I have been complaining about – it’s not intuitive and everyone encounters the same problem … and the work around is clumsy. I have just supplied an iLive for a school musical production and they had problems with the scene management…. Again!

    For the part of the market the iLive seems most suited, such as schools and armature theatre, where you use scenes quite a bit, you need 3 levels of scene management.

    1) A master scene save all, which is the current save all.

    2) A scene save that only saves levels and mutes as the default. To this you can add other functions such as EQ, Gates, Compressors, pre amp gain etc if needed.

    3) A show save, which is saves all the files associated with that particular performance.

    In addition, you still need scene safe functions.

    Best Regards

    Peter

    Peter

    #31410
    Profile photo of papromike
    papromike
    Participant

    We do have a scene safe setup, there are two ways to get to it. One is to hold down the blue Safe key on the surface and then selecting which channel you want to safe

    The other is to go to the Scenes page and then there is a grid with all of the scene safes on it by channel, DSP in the channel etc.

    What firmware is your console running? Make sure it is V 1.83

    The store all does Not store buss settings (I miss spoke) that is the show manager.

    You have multiple ways to save and store files

    Libraries, scenes and shows. The scenes sit within the show.

    I usually will archive the master show and save a copy to a stick with a just in case scene in it.

    I usually always scene safe my announcers mic and the Main output so it doesn’t change between scene recalls and I usually scene safe a playback channel.

    If you would like We can walk you through it .

    If you are coming to WFX. Stop by the booth and I will go over it .

    Vice President of Sales
    Allen & Heath USA

    #31412
    Profile photo of RayS
    RayS
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by tk2k

    Hi everyone,

    Been using our new iLive for about a week now, got a few questions for the masses.

    I know there are a lot of topics on scene management, how to do it, etc, and this is one of those, but with a few caveats.

    I support everything from live bands to orchestras to theater shows, all of my theater programing experience is digico or yamaha. In both of those cases, I’ve never really had to worry about ‘recall time’ its just fairly instantaneous.

    on the iLive, it seems to take more time? Is this accurite? at the very least the touchscreen seems occupied while the ‘system busy’ dialogue displays, but does that actually ‘lock up’ the whole console, or just the touch screen?


    To add to what was said already, unfortunately when the screen is showing “system busy” messages your console is “locked up” in its last state, that is you have audio going thru but no control, care must be taken as fader moves or others during that time will eventually be acted upon after the “system busy” message disappears…..

    To properly use the scenes as implemented on the iLive, you should store a “first scene with a “store all” that will restore at boot up ( socket assignments console layout) etc… this will be stored with your show.for subsequent scenes, only store what you need in it, by using the “edit” button in the scene management window, you might want to copy basic scenes and again on a scene to scene basis only add elements that are needed…..once you’ve made changes to a scene use “update” that way only the elements included in the scene will be memorized.

    quote:


    Originally posted by tk2k

    Is there an equivalent of tracking, where I can tell the iLive not to recall a setting unless its changed?
    for example, I have an actor who puts on a large hat at one point which changes the characteristics of their mic, so I have a different EQ on them. Obviously there’s no point in recalling the same exact EQ for the 30+ scenes before I need that EQ, but I can’t remove the EQ from programing entirely as I do need it to change for one scene.

    Thanks


    Save a scene that reflect the EQ you want with no hat for that particular channel or group of channels, in subsequent scenes you can either remove the EQ from the scene recall (edit in scene window) but, because now your scene content has been trimmed down and you are recalling fewer elements, you could leave it in. without affecting scene recall speed ……at the scene where the hat is worn add the new EQ if you had removed it from that scene or just click “update” if you left it in…and so on.

    Hope that helps

    Ray

    #31415
    Profile photo of CareyD
    CareyD
    Participant

    Just to add some clarification:

    A ‘Scene’ stores mix settings but not the system configuration and user preferences. A ‘Show’ stores all settings including configuration, preferences and contents of all 250 Scenes. Use Scenes for recalling band sound checks, theatre cues and so on. Use Shows to archive everything for future use, give you a fresh system starting point, and transfer via USB key.

    The ‘Store All’ button stores all your mix settings to a Scene, for example to save a band sound check, or a master scene as a starting point for a theatre show. Alternatively you can store just a few selected parameters in a Scene, for example channel mute and level changes in a theatre show. Use ‘Edit’ to choose and add parameters to a Scene. Use ‘Update’ to overwrite just those parameters with the current desk settings at any time.

    Storing and recalling all parameters can take a while as it handles a lot of information (imagine all parameters for 64 mic pres, 65 HPF, 104 PEQs, 32 GEQs, 96 compressors, 64 gates, 160 sidechain filters, 8 stereo FX, 32 mixes, 16 DCAs, 128 names, colours, strip and softkey assignments, patchbays and more), but working with just the parameters you need can be very quick. For shows needing fast cue changes the following procedure can make the Scene system very fast:

    Use ‘Edit’ to add just the parameters you want to work with to an empty Scene,
    ‘Copy’ and ‘Paste’ to other Scene locations as a ‘template’ for the number of Scenes you need,
    Name each Scene according to your cues,
    During rehearsal step through each and use ‘Update’ to store the current settings to those parameters.
    ‘Recall’ during the show should now be very quick.

    This video explains much of this as well as the Safes system:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PjUNG_wkWw&feature=plcp

    Regards,
    Carey

    #31434
    Profile photo of ddff_lv
    ddff_lv
    Participant

    Thanks for the video link – somehow I didn’t know A&H has a youtube channel.

    Short off-topic, if you don’t mind – what is the basic difference between IDR Mixrack Socket and Direct Out of the channel when choosing signal source for recording ?

    ddff

    #31438
    Profile photo of Stealth
    Stealth
    Moderator

    Hi ddff_lv

    In the Outputs page:

    MixRack Inputs – refer to physical socket id’s (e.g. A1-A8, B1-B8) Post preamp, Pad, Phantom power – direct to the output

    Input Direct Outs – are taken from the 1-64 (65-128 Dualrack)DSP channels and you have the option of choosing the output stage, Post: Preamp, HPF, Gate, Insert return, PEQ, Compressor, Limiter, Mute & fader.

    Hope that helps

    Regards
    Sam A&H

    #31504
    Profile photo of parsen
    parsen
    Participant

    Hi all,

    One thing I have suggested in the past is:

    – Scenes should be able to recall library items. For example let’s say you have a PEQ store in the library for your lead vocal. During sound check, you need to make a change to that PEQ setting for whatever reason. By simply updating this change in the library, the change should be reflected by all the scene recalls which use this library entry. (Change once, apply to many)

    So, using the actor with the hat changing mic characteristics example, lets say the actor puts the hat on and takes it off more than once during the show. With two EQ settings stored in you library, one for hat on and one for hat off, it would be nice if you could have a scene recall the EQ setting from your library. This way, if you need to change let’s say the hat on EQ for some reason, you would make your EQ change and update your previous hat on EQ in your library. You wouldn’t have to update any of the scenes. Otherwise, you have to first recall each scene making use of this hat on EQ one at a time, make your EQ change, and update the scene. Why? Simply because you may have other settings common to those scenes but set differently that you don’t want updated. That would be disastrous. An UNDO would be good too.

    Just a thought!

    Paul

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