v1.9 previews on plasa …

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  • #31462
    Profile photo of Jens-Droessler
    Jens-Droessler
    Participant

    I can understand that iDR10 and iDR0 users are upset because v1.9 probably won’t run on their iDRs. But the facts are: You got a working system with v1.83, and v1.9 will add features you didn’t pay for when you bought the system. You bought it for what it was and not for what it COULD become. If A&H had decided not to bring these features to the iLive, you wouldn’t complain about a mandatory hardware update, because you couldn’t! A&H could instead have announced an iLive2 with these features, they didn’t. Things just get outdated, that’s life. My three years old TV doesn’t do 3D, shall I call the manufacturer now and complain about that? Of courde not. I’d have to buy a new one. But A&H did it the other way, they give you the possibility to swap just the outdated part for a reasonable price. I think that’s a very nice kind of doing business!

    About the new features:
    I understand most of them are running in beta phase in the labs already. The multiband compressor and the dynamicEQ will run as an effect block in one of the eight effects slots, as it seems. But will they make use of the enhanced effects input/output features introduced in v1.8 (IIRC) or will they only be stereo or even mono? That would be a real bummer. To put a multiband on say each of four vocal channels I would need four effects slots. No can do!
    Also, I don’t think I’d need four dynamic EQ bands per instance of the effect. One would be enough for me. Same thing applies here as for the multiband compressor: I hope we can route multiple channels independently to each instance/effect slot. Better yet IMO would have been if the dynEQ would have been an option for the limiter/deesser section per channel (yes, we couldn’t use all the options via the hardware knobs, but I wouldn’t mind. Also one band only, but that would be enough), making it a limiter/deesser/dynEQ section. So the things I ask for would be the whipped cream on the update. I will have fun toying with it anyway :)

    #31466
    Profile photo of PeterM
    PeterM
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by PeterM

    quote:


    Originally posted by Jens Droessler

    I can understand that iDR10 and iDR0 users are upset because v1.9 probably won’t run on their iDRs. But the facts are: You got a working system with v1.83, and v1.9 will add features you didn’t pay for when you bought the system. You bought it for what it was and not for what it COULD become. If A&H had decided not to bring these features to the iLive, you wouldn’t complain about a mandatory hardware update, because you couldn’t! A&H could instead have announced an iLive2 with these features, they didn’t. Things just get outdated, that’s life. My three years old TV doesn’t do 3D, shall I call the manufacturer now and complain about that? Of courde not. I’d have to buy a new one. But A&H did it the other way, they give you the possibility to swap just the outdated part for a reasonable price. I think that’s a very nice kind of doing business!

    About the new features:
    I understand most of them are running in beta phase in the labs already. The multiband compressor and the dynamicEQ will run as an effect block in one of the eight effects slots, as it seems. But will they make use of the enhanced effects input/output features introduced in v1.8 (IIRC) or will they only be stereo or even mono? That would be a real bummer. To put a multiband on say each of four vocal channels I would need four effects slots. No can do!
    Also, I don’t think I’d need four dynamic EQ bands per instance of the effect. One would be enough for me. Same thing applies here as for the multiband compressor: I hope we can route multiple channels independently to each instance/effect slot. Better yet IMO would have been if the dynEQ would have been an option for the limiter/deesser section per channel (yes, we couldn’t use all the options via the hardware knobs, but I wouldn’t mind. Also one band only, but that would be enough), making it a limiter/deesser/dynEQ section. So the things I ask for would be the whipped cream on the update. I will have fun toying with it anyway :)


    Firstly, both the iLive and iLiveT are current models. The iLive costs roughly more than twice that of the T and is sold as “top of the line”. I also don’t think early adopters should be disadvantaged. If the iLive was not a current model then its different, in which case I don’t think there should be any expectations regarding software up-dates.

    For the iLive to compete in the top end of the market there are certain extra functions that it needs in 2012, not necessarily functions I personally need, but function my customers are demanding, functions that most of the completion has.

    From what I have now been told about the approximate price and delivery time of a new CPU, I don’t have a problem. B U T when it looked like only the T would get 1.9 and not its big brother, I wasn’t too happy. If the iLive CPU was not going to be up-grade, it had some serious implications for the product and my business. This all could have been much smoother if AH had given us or their distributor a bit of a heads up so to speak … not difficult.

    FWIW one of the things I think A&H may not be getting quite right is upgrading the firmware based on the wish list of some of their customers. This board doesn’t always reflect the bigger picture. I know that seems completely stupid at first, but you need to think about it a bit.

    In simple terms, people that bought the iLive, bought it because it did what they needed – so of course they are happy. The question that A&H should be asking is – what is it that people who didn’t buy the iLive want, and what can they do to change that situation.

    This is part of what they need to do if they are to expand their sales and rider acceptance. And yes, I know it’s not as simple as board functions, but it’s part of what’s needed, and 1.9 will address a lot of them I hope.

    Regarding your suggestion about the Dynamic EQ on all channels as – one band – limiter/deesser/dynEQ section, I suggested that about 3 or 4 years ago when I bought my first iLive … Great idea!!! If they had that, and tidied up the scene management so it’s a bit more intuitive especially for a first time operator a couple of years ago, I would not have been getting so frustrated when people were picking an M7 over an iLive 144 because they thought it was a better desk. (compared to an iLive they have limited functions and sound like [xx(])

    Anyway … if you need that sort of function, Digico offer Dynamic EQ on all channels, Midas do it as part of the Effects rack as does the Yamaha CL range, and AVID do it as a plug in. I think Digico does it by allowing you to dynamically control one or more of the bands in the normal EQ section, not unlike your suggestion for the Deesser.

    To repeat my first post … “That [1.9] looks absolutely fantastic! Thank you.

    I am hoping they have also tidied up the scene management a little, and maybe added pop DCA function.”

    Peter


    Peter

    #31470
    Profile photo of Rexeltw
    Rexeltw
    Participant

    I guess the bottom line is that this ONLY affects those owners that have the modular brain racks (which is a minority) and that A&H have said they will offer the replacement DSP at basically cost.

    Bearing in mind that our brain racks are 6 years old (I checked)I’m not too concerned that we will have to pay a small amount to improve them a bit. Sooner or later we will have to upgrade the SBC & fader control brains too as they are running 1.6gHZ processors and the new ones are 2gHZ but thats not a major job either.

    Time moves on

    .

    Just remember kids no matter how good your mixing is you can’t polish a turd…

    #31477
    Profile photo of frozenwaffles
    frozenwaffles
    Participant

    quote:


    FWIW one of the things I think A&H may not be getting quite right is upgrading the firmware based on the wish list of some of their customers. This board doesn’t always reflect the bigger picture. I know that seems completely stupid at first, but you need to think about it a bit.

    In simple terms, people that bought the iLive, bought it because it did what they needed – so of course they are happy. The question that A&H should be asking is – what is it that people who didn’t buy the iLive want, and what can they do to change that situation.

    This is part of what they need to do if they are to expand their sales and rider acceptance. And yes, I know it’s not as simple as board functions, but it’s part of what’s needed, and 1.9 will address a lot of them I hope.


    This sums it up all perfectly!

    Current stock:
    2x T112, 1x T80, 2x R72, 2x iDR-48, 3x iDR-16, 2x xDR-16
    4x Dante Cards, 3x ACE Cards

    #31480
    Profile photo of mumu
    mumu
    Participant

    first buyer here (idr 10/144)
    after all those (free)updates i dont mind buying a new card.
    this is not a daw this is (in my case) and so far a “never let me down” system. does not hurt me at all.
    i support the policy of “better wait longer than a crash” for a updated version – no i dont have a deal with a&h – i do work on big open airs where everybody brings its own protools desk – even though it is exactly the same model, just because no one knows what perdy jpeg plugins are installed on the different/same consoles.(or do you actually believe if you see a picture of a fairchild you do have a fairchild?????)
    reconsider please: you have a rental company with tons of venue customers …GET A VENUE or what ever is your customers preferred console.
    if i want to get a telcaster sound i use a telecaster.
    maybe i am out to lunch but i am definetely not a missionary man or as we used to say: you need more monitor auxes? sell more records…

    ps: this is not a answer to anybody`s post just my personal opinion
    and not to forget there are many (simple) things i miss on the ilive

    cheers
    dave

    allways latest firm and software
    iLive-144/t-80/idr-10 /idr-48/dante/pl-6/eyepad 1/belkin router/

    #31488
    Profile photo of Mr-B
    Mr-B
    Participant

    Totally agree Dave, most of the jobs I do with iLive I have 2 X iDR10’s nailed together fully loaded with inputs, sometimes providing stems for other engineers to use. You don’t need flaky software at that point. Still end up putting the choir on another desk which is a shame but hey that is another question. my other option is an SD7 or an XL8 I believe.
    Touch wood I have never had an iLive fall over during a show, only time it has problems they are usually caused by me or another human, long may that continue.

    I am quite happy to wait for 1.9 until those far more clever than I have finished their work in the great scheme of things it won’t be long.

    Ian B.

    #31492
    Profile photo of Jens-Droessler
    Jens-Droessler
    Participant

    Hrmpf. My customers never ask for multiband compression or dynEQs. That’s something I want to have to make my mix possibly better…

    For the rest: v1.9 is not an update, it’s an upgrade. As I said, I understand everyone with modular iLive being upset a bit, but as I also said it was A&Hs decision to bring these features to the iLive platform. They just could have left it the way it was.
    Here is how I see it: The modular iLive buyers are a really small minority since the arrival of the T-series and fixed iDRs. That itself is of course no reason to leave them out. But the hardware is simply older. If T-Series and fixed iDRs would have had the same DSPs as the modularhad before, they wouldn’t even think of bringing us dynEQ, multiband compression and stuff, because it wouldn’t be possible on any iLive available yet. If that was the case, no one could complain. The only thing recent buyers of the modular iDR could complain is that A&H hadn’t upgraded the whole modular platform as soon as they delivered the fixed platform!
    Also, I don’t think your argument about potential customers who didn’t buy the iLive is valid. These customers have already bought something else. If they now see those features they were missing when deciding to go another way are on iLive now, they won’t sell their desks because of that, because they have a desk with these features. And even if their current desk hasn’t these features and was bought because a name with better reputation is on it, they won’t sell it and get an iLive becuase the iLive is an “old” platform now, all the craze and hype is gone already and the customers of those customers want a system that’s talked about a lot and a fresh breeze on the market. People buying iLive now but didn’t before out of specific reasons are a very very small percentage of customers by my guesstimation. All the potential customers I mentioned would rather wait for an iLive2 with all the new features and some more.

    But you are right about the rider acceptance. Do you have ideas how to improve it? :) If this could be done, it would be a win win situation for us and A&H.

    #31495
    Profile photo of PeterM
    PeterM
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by Jens Droessler

    Hrmpf. My customers never ask for multiband compression or dynEQs. That’s something I want to have to make my mix possibly better…

    For the rest: v1.9 is not an update, it’s an upgrade. As I said, I understand everyone with modular iLive being upset a bit, but as I also said it was A&Hs decision to bring these features to the iLive platform. They just could have left it the way it was.
    Here is how I see it: The modular iLive buyers are a really small minority since the arrival of the T-series and fixed iDRs. That itself is of course no reason to leave them out. But the hardware is simply older. If T-Series and fixed iDRs would have had the same DSPs as the modularhad before, they wouldn’t even think of bringing us dynEQ, multiband compression and stuff, because it wouldn’t be possible on any iLive available yet. If that was the case, no one could complain. The only thing recent buyers of the modular iDR could complain is that A&H hadn’t upgraded the whole modular platform as soon as they delivered the fixed platform!
    Also, I don’t think your argument about potential customers who didn’t buy the iLive is valid. These customers have already bought something else. If they now see those features they were missing when deciding to go another way are on iLive now, they won’t sell their desks because of that, because they have a desk with these features. And even if their current desk hasn’t these features and was bought because a name with better reputation is on it, they won’t sell it and get an iLive becuase the iLive is an “old” platform now, all the craze and hype is gone already and the customers of those customers want a system that’s talked about a lot and a fresh breeze on the market. People buying iLive now but didn’t before out of specific reasons are a very very small percentage of customers by my guesstimation. All the potential customers I mentioned would rather wait for an iLive2 with all the new features and some more.

    But you are right about the rider acceptance. Do you have ideas how to improve it? :) If this could be done, it would be a win win situation for us and A&H.


    Rider acceptance is a big issue for me. I must confess I have start looking at other options to address this and have done some training on the Pro2 and the CL5.

    What’s interesting, when you compare the iLive to other desks on the market, except for a few things that I suspect will be address in 1.9 – it’s the easiest, quickest and one of the most powerful desks out there … and it sounds great. The little GLD is just fantastic, certainly best in class.

    Anyway … rider acceptance is driven by the Pro end of the market, so to get acceptance you need the feature set that they want … and it includes (for example) a Dynamic EQ. You also need to get the big names to use it …such as Adel (+1 A&H).

    The problem for A&H is the perception of their analogue products such as the GL2200 has tainted their digital range – I think they should have marketed the iLive under a new name like Lexus & Toyota.

    The A&H analogue desks I have owned over the years have made a better ROI than any other desk, but A&H are still coming from behind, they don’t just need to be as good as the opposition … they need to be twice as good to challenge these perceptions….

    The iliveT doesn’t really cut it in the Pro end of the market, at the very least you need 8 XLR mic pres and 8 XLR outs on the desk. Don’t get me wrong it’s a great product, but it won’t drive a rider.

    Peter

    #31497
    Profile photo of tk2k
    tk2k
    Participant

    So who thinks this is a sign of iLive V2?

    http://www.soundpro.com/images/stories/file/pdf/iLiveRebate_2012.pdf

    iDR-48, T-112, Mixpad
    College

    #31500
    Profile photo of ceejay
    ceejay
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by tk2k

    So who thinks this is a sign of iLive V2?

    http://www.soundpro.com/images/stories/file/pdf/iLiveRebate_2012.pdf

    iDR-48, T-112, Mixpad
    College


    It does appear they are trying to create demand and get inventory out of the distribution / dealer channel. It is a typical action if something is either being reintroduced or discontinued.
    I do agree with a previous poster that it has been really quiet on the Allen & Heath side with iLive for awhile, in regards to firmware updates. I did express my fears in the suggestions post a while back around all the efforts and resources with GLD. My fear is obsolescence. I hope I am wrong, but this is very interesting.

    CRJ
    Oswego, IL

    T112 & iDR48
    Sony F 1.73GHZ I7 8 Core
    Win 7 Pro 500GB HD 8G RAM
    TP-Link WR1043ND & Airport Express

    #31668
    Profile photo of Jens-Droessler
    Jens-Droessler
    Participant

    This could also mean that they want to improve sales. With all the features v1.9 will bring, the improved iDRs with AES outs and the developement of new DSP boards for the modular system I don’t think they’ll introduce a completely new line soon. If they’d bring a new system shortly after such upgrades, customers will get seriously pissed. They wouldn’t buy a new A&H system even at half the price.

    #31674
    Profile photo of teknik99
    teknik99
    Participant

    I would suggest that there is a possibilty that A & H like most companies in the industrialised western world are finding sales harder to come by these days in part due to GFC and Euro debt crisis and like all forward thinking companies are trying to secure their future by protecting their current market share.

    Dont forget we have just starting to see the Midas Pro2 & Yamaha CL hit the street and these are directly aimed at the A & H price point.

    That said it would not surprise me in the least that if some time in the next 24 months using FW V1.9 as a starting point if A & H used as a building block all of the current IDR range (with upgraded dsp being discussed) but introduced a range of new surfaces.

    Cheers

    #31683
    Profile photo of Pitk
    Pitk
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by teknik99

    That said it would not surprise me in the least that if some time in the next 24 months using FW V1.9 as a starting point if A & H used as a building block all of the current IDR range (with upgraded dsp being discussed) but introduced a range of new surfaces.

    Cheers


    In my opinion, this is the exact way to do it!!!! Still supporting “old” products and bringing new stuff to markets. I still have Soundcraft SR200 in my studio, it’s over 20 years old and still rockin’! I also have two MH-series Soundcraft analog consoles AND iLive. They are all great.

    Pitk.

    Jukka “Pitkä” Kurkela
    Äänimaisema Oy, Finland
    iLiveT80 / iDr32

    #31758
    Profile photo of tk2k
    tk2k
    Participant

    So uh… October is coming to an end, could we at least get an ETA and release notes?

    Will show files be backwards compatible? Got some shows i want to program soon, but if we’re getting 1.9 in the next week I’ll wait

    iDR-48, T-112, Mixpad
    College

    #31801
    Profile photo of Stix
    Stix
    Participant

    Just heard – V 1.9 firmware and Editor is to be released on the 5th Nov. Also – a new personal Monitor app “OneMix” will be sent to Apple for approval on the 19th November. We should then see it released a few days later assuming it passes Apple’s tests – Expected to be $7.99

    Cheers

    Richard Howey
    Audio Dynamite Ltd
    IDR48/IDR16/T112/R72/Mixpad,Tweak,
    Dual M-Dante/DVS, 17″MBP/Logic 9/Custom Mackie Control

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