This topic contains 74 replies, has 32 voices, and was last updated by 
Stix 11 years, 5 months ago.
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I can understand that iDR10 and iDR0 users are upset because v1.9 probably won’t run on their iDRs. But the facts are: You got a working system with v1.83, and v1.9 will add features you didn’t pay for when you bought the system. You bought it for what it was and not for what it COULD become. If A&H had decided not to bring these features to the iLive, you wouldn’t complain about a mandatory hardware update, because you couldn’t! A&H could instead have announced an iLive2 with these features, they didn’t. Things just get outdated, that’s life. My three years old TV doesn’t do 3D, shall I call the manufacturer now and complain about that? Of courde not. I’d have to buy a new one. But A&H did it the other way, they give you the possibility to swap just the outdated part for a reasonable price. I think that’s a very nice kind of doing business!
About the new features:
I understand most of them are running in beta phase in the labs already. The multiband compressor and the dynamicEQ will run as an effect block in one of the eight effects slots, as it seems. But will they make use of the enhanced effects input/output features introduced in v1.8 (IIRC) or will they only be stereo or even mono? That would be a real bummer. To put a multiband on say each of four vocal channels I would need four effects slots. No can do!
Also, I don’t think I’d need four dynamic EQ bands per instance of the effect. One would be enough for me. Same thing applies here as for the multiband compressor: I hope we can route multiple channels independently to each instance/effect slot. Better yet IMO would have been if the dynEQ would have been an option for the limiter/deesser section per channel (yes, we couldn’t use all the options via the hardware knobs, but I wouldn’t mind. Also one band only, but that would be enough), making it a limiter/deesser/dynEQ section. So the things I ask for would be the whipped cream on the update. I will have fun toying with it anyway
quote:
Originally posted by PeterMquote:
Originally posted by Jens DroesslerI can understand that iDR10 and iDR0 users are upset because v1.9 probably won’t run on their iDRs. But the facts are: You got a working system with v1.83, and v1.9 will add features you didn’t pay for when you bought the system. You bought it for what it was and not for what it COULD become. If A&H had decided not to bring these features to the iLive, you wouldn’t complain about a mandatory hardware update, because you couldn’t! A&H could instead have announced an iLive2 with these features, they didn’t. Things just get outdated, that’s life. My three years old TV doesn’t do 3D, shall I call the manufacturer now and complain about that? Of courde not. I’d have to buy a new one. But A&H did it the other way, they give you the possibility to swap just the outdated part for a reasonable price. I think that’s a very nice kind of doing business!
About the new features:
I understand most of them are running in beta phase in the labs already. The multiband compressor and the dynamicEQ will run as an effect block in one of the eight effects slots, as it seems. But will they make use of the enhanced effects input/output features introduced in v1.8 (IIRC) or will they only be stereo or even mono? That would be a real bummer. To put a multiband on say each of four vocal channels I would need four effects slots. No can do!
Also, I don’t think I’d need four dynamic EQ bands per instance of the effect. One would be enough for me. Same thing applies here as for the multiband compressor: I hope we can route multiple channels independently to each instance/effect slot. Better yet IMO would have been if the dynEQ would have been an option for the limiter/deesser section per channel (yes, we couldn’t use all the options via the hardware knobs, but I wouldn’t mind. Also one band only, but that would be enough), making it a limiter/deesser/dynEQ section. So the things I ask for would be the whipped cream on the update. I will have fun toying with it anywayFirstly, both the iLive and iLiveT are current models. The iLive costs roughly more than twice that of the T and is sold as “top of the line”. I also don’t think early adopters should be disadvantaged. If the iLive was not a current model then its different, in which case I don’t think there should be any expectations regarding software up-dates.
For the iLive to compete in the top end of the market there are certain extra functions that it needs in 2012, not necessarily functions I personally need, but function my customers are demanding, functions that most of the completion has.
From what I have now been told about the approximate price and delivery time of a new CPU, I don’t have a problem. B U T when it looked like only the T would get 1.9 and not its big brother, I wasn’t too happy. If the iLive CPU was not going to be up-grade, it had some serious implications for the product and my business. This all could have been much smoother if AH had given us or their distributor a bit of a heads up so to speak … not difficult.
FWIW one of the things I think A&H may not be getting quite right is upgrading the firmware based on the wish list of some of their customers. This board doesn’t always reflect the bigger picture. I know that seems completely stupid at first, but you need to think about it a bit.
In simple terms, people that bought the iLive, bought it because it did what they needed – so of course they are happy. The question that A&H should be asking is – what is it that people who didn’t buy the iLive want, and what can they do to change that situation.
This is part of what they need to do if they are to expand their sales and rider acceptance. And yes, I know it’s not as simple as board functions, but it’s part of what’s needed, and 1.9 will address a lot of them I hope.
Regarding your suggestion about the Dynamic EQ on all channels as – one band – limiter/deesser/dynEQ section, I suggested that about 3 or 4 years ago when I bought my first iLive … Great idea!!! If they had that, and tidied up the scene management so it’s a bit more intuitive especially for a first time operator a couple of years ago, I would not have been getting so frustrated when people were picking an M7 over an iLive 144 because they thought it was a better desk. (compared to an iLive they have limited functions and sound like [xx(])
Anyway … if you need that sort of function, Digico offer Dynamic EQ on all channels, Midas do it as part of the Effects rack as does the Yamaha CL range, and AVID do it as a plug in. I think Digico does it by allowing you to dynamically control one or more of the bands in the normal EQ section, not unlike your suggestion for the Deesser.
To repeat my first post … “That [1.9] looks absolutely fantastic! Thank you.
I am hoping they have also tidied up the scene management a little, and maybe added pop DCA function.”
Peter
Peter
Hrmpf. My customers never ask for multiband compression or dynEQs. That’s something I want to have to make my mix possibly better…
For the rest: v1.9 is not an update, it’s an upgrade. As I said, I understand everyone with modular iLive being upset a bit, but as I also said it was A&Hs decision to bring these features to the iLive platform. They just could have left it the way it was.
Here is how I see it: The modular iLive buyers are a really small minority since the arrival of the T-series and fixed iDRs. That itself is of course no reason to leave them out. But the hardware is simply older. If T-Series and fixed iDRs would have had the same DSPs as the modularhad before, they wouldn’t even think of bringing us dynEQ, multiband compression and stuff, because it wouldn’t be possible on any iLive available yet. If that was the case, no one could complain. The only thing recent buyers of the modular iDR could complain is that A&H hadn’t upgraded the whole modular platform as soon as they delivered the fixed platform!
Also, I don’t think your argument about potential customers who didn’t buy the iLive is valid. These customers have already bought something else. If they now see those features they were missing when deciding to go another way are on iLive now, they won’t sell their desks because of that, because they have a desk with these features. And even if their current desk hasn’t these features and was bought because a name with better reputation is on it, they won’t sell it and get an iLive becuase the iLive is an “old” platform now, all the craze and hype is gone already and the customers of those customers want a system that’s talked about a lot and a fresh breeze on the market. People buying iLive now but didn’t before out of specific reasons are a very very small percentage of customers by my guesstimation. All the potential customers I mentioned would rather wait for an iLive2 with all the new features and some more.But you are right about the rider acceptance. Do you have ideas how to improve it?
If this could be done, it would be a win win situation for us and A&H.quote:
Originally posted by Jens DroesslerHrmpf. My customers never ask for multiband compression or dynEQs. That’s something I want to have to make my mix possibly better…
For the rest: v1.9 is not an update, it’s an upgrade. As I said, I understand everyone with modular iLive being upset a bit, but as I also said it was A&Hs decision to bring these features to the iLive platform. They just could have left it the way it was.
Here is how I see it: The modular iLive buyers are a really small minority since the arrival of the T-series and fixed iDRs. That itself is of course no reason to leave them out. But the hardware is simply older. If T-Series and fixed iDRs would have had the same DSPs as the modularhad before, they wouldn’t even think of bringing us dynEQ, multiband compression and stuff, because it wouldn’t be possible on any iLive available yet. If that was the case, no one could complain. The only thing recent buyers of the modular iDR could complain is that A&H hadn’t upgraded the whole modular platform as soon as they delivered the fixed platform!
Also, I don’t think your argument about potential customers who didn’t buy the iLive is valid. These customers have already bought something else. If they now see those features they were missing when deciding to go another way are on iLive now, they won’t sell their desks because of that, because they have a desk with these features. And even if their current desk hasn’t these features and was bought because a name with better reputation is on it, they won’t sell it and get an iLive becuase the iLive is an “old” platform now, all the craze and hype is gone already and the customers of those customers want a system that’s talked about a lot and a fresh breeze on the market. People buying iLive now but didn’t before out of specific reasons are a very very small percentage of customers by my guesstimation. All the potential customers I mentioned would rather wait for an iLive2 with all the new features and some more.But you are right about the rider acceptance. Do you have ideas how to improve it?
If this could be done, it would be a win win situation for us and A&H.Rider acceptance is a big issue for me. I must confess I have start looking at other options to address this and have done some training on the Pro2 and the CL5.
What’s interesting, when you compare the iLive to other desks on the market, except for a few things that I suspect will be address in 1.9 – it’s the easiest, quickest and one of the most powerful desks out there … and it sounds great. The little GLD is just fantastic, certainly best in class.
Anyway … rider acceptance is driven by the Pro end of the market, so to get acceptance you need the feature set that they want … and it includes (for example) a Dynamic EQ. You also need to get the big names to use it …such as Adel (+1 A&H).
The problem for A&H is the perception of their analogue products such as the GL2200 has tainted their digital range – I think they should have marketed the iLive under a new name like Lexus & Toyota.
The A&H analogue desks I have owned over the years have made a better ROI than any other desk, but A&H are still coming from behind, they don’t just need to be as good as the opposition … they need to be twice as good to challenge these perceptions….
The iliveT doesn’t really cut it in the Pro end of the market, at the very least you need 8 XLR mic pres and 8 XLR outs on the desk. Don’t get me wrong it’s a great product, but it won’t drive a rider.
Peter
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