[KiboshParticipant]

I saw the full Behringer X32, not the Producer, and I could compare it with the Presonus Studiolive next to it. Yes, the build quality off the Presonus felt much better. Probably the Allen & Heath also. But the thing is. I need all those Bells & Whistles and the QU doesn’t even come close. I can’t use my DAW as insert point. With the Presonus I could, but that one is just too expensive and ok, it’s build better but double the price and that’s too much a difference.

Below in this blog you can download WAV’s off a Behringer X32, Presonus Live AI series and the older one, and also a Soundcraft. To my ears the only one that does not sound good is the older Presonus: https://www.sonicsense.com/blog/mixers-consoles/presonus-studiolive-32-4-2-ai-vs-studiolive-24-4-2 PS: Download the WAV’s, don’t just listen to them through Soundcloud because that is reduced quality.

[KiboshParticipant]

Thx HansvdL

Yes, it will probably be the X32. But I just heard that I will need DI boxes to safely connect my hardware synths because off the Phantom Power. The X32 only has XLR connections and no Jacks inserts. Probably on purpose so you’ll have to buy their DI800 box with it.

Do you know if those DI boxes do anything on the sound quality?

[KiboshParticipant]

Thanks eotsskleet for clearing that up…

Actually the PreSonus StudioLive Series (AI versions and also the ones before), and the Behringer X32, can use the DAW as insert points. The Behringer also can do side-chaining on both the gate and compressor. The StudioLive only on the gate I think. Here is a video about a X32 webinar about that, just replace “Waves Multirack” with a DAW of your choosing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEdw5KnFIH0

Damn, I really liked the setup off the Qu (Nice channel strip, touch display,…). I guess Allen & Heath has some work to do. Looking at the feature set: Behringer is kicking the others big time.

That said, I want to thank all off you for your help.

[KiboshParticipant]

Hey robbocurry,

You have off course good points, but I won’t be travelling with the console or doing live mixing. It’s just for my home studio, so when it does break, yes, I’ll be angry, but it won’t kill someones gig.

About the sound of the X32, I found just an hour ago an article comparing a PreSonus AI vs the old PreSonus, The X32 and a Soundcraft. I have to admit after 25 years having a lot off pumping bass through my ears, I might miss some subtle differences, but listening to the 24bit WAV’s you can download from that article through SoundCloud: Soundwise the X32 holds up perfectly against the Presonus and Soundcraft. The older PreSonus is actually the one that sounds less then the others.

It’s a shame the Allen & Heath wasn’t in the comparisation, maybe it does sound better? But PreSonus and Soundcraft aren’t junk boards either.

https://www.sonicsense.com/blog/mixers-consoles/presonus-studiolive-32-4-2-ai-vs-studiolive-24-4-2

Another thing is that I emailed Allen & Heath through their website with a bunch of questions last week. Still didn’t got an answer. Maybe everybody is on holiday, or it’s too busy, or they think I’m not important enough. But some off my question still remain unsolved.

It is still not clear to me wether I can use my DAW as an insert point. And if it can do side-chaining on the compressor and gain.

But all that: The reason I didn’t decide yet is in fact the build quality off the Behringer and the reputation they have.

[KiboshParticipant]

Thanks Hans,

You confirmed what I already thought.

First I thought because off the USB and that DSnake, you could expand the board, but reading more about it, the Snake is for remote audio, not for expanding it. It’s a bit off a shame because then I would need the Qu-24 to reach my needed amount channels. And that one costs €2500.

Also if I’m correct you can not do side-chaining on the gate or on the compressor in the channel strip. For making club music, this is a must have feature. I’m a bit surprised they didn’t implement this.

At this time I’m also looking into the Behringer X32 Producer. It only costs €1300 and with that I will have full 32 channels ins and outs with 16 on board analog ins expandable to those 32 through DSnake, full routing possibility and side-chaining on the gate and compressor, 8FX channels. Also with 16 motorized faders and channel strip for the basic dynamics.

If you compare the possibilities of the X32 vs the Qu-24 with a price difference off €1200, it’s hard to look beside it.

Also what I have read now, the X32 sound quality isn’t bad. The pre-amps are designed by Midas and on the forums nobody complains about the sound quality and also the FX works good. It’s also harder to find comments on the A&H Qu’s on other forums.

I saw Allen & Heath reduced the price of the QU-16 to now match the Behringer X32 Compact, but it even doesn’t have the functions off the X32 Producer. I guess they know that Behringer is kicking all others.

The only thing that holds me back from the Behringer is… It’s Behringer. Their reputation isn’t good. But with that difference in pricing, even when it breaks down in 4 years… I can buy two X32 Producers for the price off one QU-24. And with actual amount off channels, we should be comparing it with the Qu-32.

It’s a real shame, because I thought I found my match with the Qu-16, but after digging deeper it’s seems I need the Qu-24 but that one can’t do side-chaining in it’s channel strip.

Another strange thing is, I can’t find a local vendor in Belgium that actually has a QU displayed. So I can not get a real feel off the board.

Damn, it’s seems to be very hard for me to come to a conclusion. But at this time my head is turning to the Behringer X32 producer, or someone should give me a good reason why I should pay the double and have less features?

[KiboshParticipant]

Hey Dhak,

Already a big thanx for the help. It was pleasent to see your reaction after a frustrating day at the office. Your explanations sounds very promising.

About Ableton Live 9. What you can do with Live 8, you can do with Live 9 and a bit more. I love it because off the “scenes”. You can create all different paterns, with all kind off variations and stuff. And when done, you can then copy paste or simply record them into the arrangement view. You can download a free trial if you want to check it out. Like you probably saw in the YouTube video, you can for each channel in Live the input source and output source independed from each other. There is no matrix, it’s direct on the channels. For example on channel 6 I can choose the input from the QU, send the output to another channel in Ableton (for example a bus), and then send it back to the QU. It’s very easy. Here is nice video about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2nRHiRe89o

About your question: I don’t mix live. I only will use two outputs for my speakers. It’s only for EDM, so only to hook up hardware synths, drum machines and maybe a microphone.

I’ve also downloaded the manual but I’m a bit confused about that “custom layer”. With that custom layer you get another 16 faders, on those faders you can then select “mono or stereo input channels”. But with the Qu-16, are there then more then 16 mono channels? For example channels 17-24 from DSnake and 25-32 from USB?

It’s not clear from the manual. So with the QU-16, do you only have 16 channels (for example 10 analog ins and then 6 from USB) or does it have more, (for example all 16 analog in + the custom layer faders with 8 from DSnake and 8 from USB?) If it is the second then I’m fine with the Qu-16, if not, I guess that can be a deal breaker because the Qu-24 is probably to costly. I would find it strange that you can add an expansion with a DSnake, that you only would have 16 channels. I would think 16 + Dsnake or the USB inputs from the DAW.

The Qu-16 doesn’t have a bus, but if the above is like I hope, I can use the custom layer with the USB inputs as a bus.

Another import question is side-chaining. Can you do this with the compressor and gate? For mixing EDM, you need the duck the bassline when the kick comes in. Especially for club tracks. Without side-chaining it all gets to muddy. At this point I don’t think it’s possible, which I find strange because I would think with other styles of music, you also want to side-chain the bass.

Again a very big thank you. You’re input surely helped.

[KiboshParticipant]

Hey Dhak,

I guess you are on the right track on what I want. I guess it something like an insert but it does not need to be.

I’ll give an example:
On inputs 1 to 4 on the QU there is a hardware synth that just will go into Ableton live and comes back out at the main mix from Ableton to the Qu. Just like I’m working now with my audio interface, a Steinberg UR824. So that should work fine. (I think)

But on input 5-6 on the QU I have some drumsounds I want to heavilly adjust with lots off stuff. I want to send them into Ableton, process them there, and then back into the QU on for example one off those custom channels where I can then process them with the QU’s EQ and compressor as a final stage mix.

On other custom channels, I then want to add some software synths from Ableton, for example NI Massive, into the QU, maybe also processed first in Ableton, but final processing on the QU.

And yes, all the above should be playing at the same time.

I do not want to first go into the QU, record into Ableton, and then playback recorded files. Nope, all realtime. I guess like you have put it, ITB+OTB a the same time. Let’s call it open box mixing, LOL.

Seeing the routing options I think it might be possible. But I only saw some video’s on Youtube and read some. Real life is always something else.

Also therefore my concern about latency. To give an idea: I now reach an overall latency of 14ms (in+out) with a buffer of 128 samples with the Steinberg, which has 8 ins and 8 outs. It’s set at 48KHz.

The thing is, Ableton Live, just as other DAW’s, are very flexibel. For example in Ableton live I can create effects rack without limit on each seperate channel. The limit comes when the CPU get’s hot. I don’t want to loose that just to have some hands-on mixer. Nope, the mixer needs to work together with Ableton.

And having midi control on Ableton’s faders is for me just a nice extra, but I’ll probably use all channels for audio.

[Author]

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