[DeltoranParticipant]

I’ll give you an example of the sound difference and why it is a problem. A week ago, more like two now, we recorded a choral octet with piano. Prior to recording, we set up the mix and there was a good balance between the parts and the piano was at sufficient volume to support but not overpower the singers. Once all was said and done, I replayed the recording on the Camera and suddenly there were certain voice parts that stuck out that didn’t when we initially recorded. Also, the general tone sounded thinner and more muted and the piano was too loud and would consistently overpower the singers.

I expect that the sound will be different when it’s streamed over the internet, which is why it matters that we get a good original…it’s hard for me to generate a good product if the changes I make on the mixer don’t translate to the camera/recording.

[DeltoranParticipant]

We actually have a similar setup, we’ve got a ‘livestream’ booth where the livestream director runs the stream and normally somebody is supposed to adjust the 7-8 mix from the Ipad…but until recently, most of our tech staff didn’t even know what PAFL was…so they were waiting for the stream and listening from the computer instead of just listening direct to the mix. Since we’ve gone to recorded/edited segments instead of livestream due to Covid, we’ve got a camera guy and a sound guy (me) who monitor during recording direct from the mixer and camera since we’re not really using the sanctuary mix. We’re both using noise isolation headphones so we don’t really hear what’s going on outside. Again, the problem is what I hear from the board doesn’t match what one hears on the camera when playing back the recording. I’ll let everyone know how the two XLR lines work out. Probably better to have stereo sound.

[DeltoranParticipant]

I figured I was supposed to be hearing the same sound when I connect to the mixer as well as the camera…that’s the crux of my problem. I am using the same headphones.

Yes, PAFLing mix 7-8, not the LR (house) mix. We’re set to Pre-fade which seems right after reading what Mike C wrote. We want our house (LR) mix to be different than our recording/livestream mix (7-8). I’m just trying to figure out why that 7-8 mix which goes to the camera sounds different on the camera than it does from the board. Could it be some sort of audio encoding issue with the camera? I’ll try using the two XLR lines going to the camera, hopefully that will help.

[DeltoranParticipant]

The camera is set to record only a single input; on the camera’s screen both input meters are set to input 1 and both are showing audio signal.

All the channels on the mixer have panning set to center. There is a difference in volume on the camera but I assume that’s just due to the ‘Headphone volume’ setting on the camera. What is more concerning to me is that the sound quality and the various levels in the actual mix sound different on the camera compared to the mixer. If they aren’t the same, the changes I make on the mixer are pointless. Do you think I should try to connect a second XLR to input 2 and switch the camera to stereo or does it not make any difference since the panning is centered?

One additional thing I’m wondering: What should the Mix sends be set to, pre or post? I’m curious if perhaps that’s why I’m getting a sound difference.

[DeltoranParticipant]

There is no panning on the 7-8 mix that I’m aware of but I’ll double check next time I go in to work. Now that you guys mention it though, I am wondering if we need to set up two input lines instead of the one. The XLR inputs on the XA11 are set to ‘M’ as well as ‘line’ but only one of the inputs has an XLR line from the board. How does the 7-8 Mix work…is it actually two mixes that work in stereo? Or does it only do that if the channels are panned? If the camera is only receiving one mix, that could certainly be the problem.

The camera is set to standard mode, none of the special ‘speaking’ or ‘music’ modes.

I’ll update tomorrow after I take another look.

[DeltoranParticipant]

@Mike_C

There’s only a single XLR line from the board to the camcorder. When I PAFL the 7-8 mix, it sounds great. When I listen at the camera, it doesn’t sound as good. It’s not terrible, but when I’ve mixed at the board for a certain sound and then the camera doesn’t match it on the recording, it’s frustrating. Audio levels on the camera meters look fine, it’s definitely receiving the signal at good strength. The ‘headphone volume’ setting wouldn’t affect the sound other than volume would it? I’m wondering if I should just use a decibel meter on the board headphones and then match them to the camera headphones and see if that makes any difference to the quality.

[DeltoranParticipant]

The camera mic is turned completely off and all of its options on the camera’s menu are greyed out – probably because we’re using the XLR input. I checked the canon manual, not super helpful, at least in terms of audio options. The limiter is off, the attenuator is off, most options are greyed out since we’re using a line-in instead of the onboard. The switches next to the audio level controls are already in the M position. Only thing I can think of is perhaps there’s a degradation in the line between the QU-32 and the camera? Is that a thing? The camera does also have a ‘headphones’ volume option but I wouldn’t think that would affect the tone, just make it quieter to listen to.

I’ll try to make a post on a canon forum and see if they know what might be causing the audio difference. Thanks.

[DeltoranParticipant]

Just a quick update and some question and answer:

We have a Canon XA11 camera with the two XLR inputs on the side. Both inputs are set to line and manual mode. Input 1 receives Mix 7-8 from our QU-32 which is our ‘livestream/recording’ mix. We use the same headphones for listening to the mix at the board as we do for listening to the camera, a pair of Sennheiser HD 280 Pros.

I found the AGC setting on the camera, looks like there is no ‘off’ but I can switch it from Automatic to Manual and set it at 0db. Is that equivalent to ‘off’? Also, being an amateur, is there a difference between AGC for audio and video or is it paired together? When I turned the automatic off, the image became darker and sharper. Was hard to tell if the sound was much different but I didn’t have a full music group here today. If it’s a matter of having AGC off to help audio quality, do I need better lighting so the image stays the way it was? Thanks.

[DeltoranParticipant]

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions, I’ll be taking a look at the settings today and hopefully it’s just as simple as AGC and or line level.

Just to clear a few things up: the camera does have two XLR inputs on the side and the onboard microphone is off. I’ll update this thread after I do some testing.

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