We need a mini Avantis

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This topic contains 17 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Hugh Hugh 1 week, 3 days ago.

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    Profile photo of Hugh

    Tom, The QL1 is a very disappointing re-entry in the small footprint console market. Not that Yamaha will give a damn about my opinion but after a 30 month “time out” I expected at least a little bit better than yesterdays 24/48K digital processing and where are the the promised vastly improved pre amps given their price point at almost 10K. That is paying one hell of a big premium for convenience connectivity. If we have learned nothing else from Behringer’s brand buying spree, big name (Neve in this case) influence may or may not get the job done. Yamaha has, in the past, offered the worst internal pre amps of any major manufacturer: they have a lot of ground in this regard to make up. For some unknown reason they are not providing much, if any, info about their new I/Os and converters in the QL 1. Furthermore IMO the QL 1 cannot sonically compete with an SQ5 and given the fact that the SQ5 has a MSRP 4K price point the price/value comparative metric is a no brainer.
    The Mini Avantis I described would be a unique product with out a competitor any where close to it’s assumed price point. Thats how a Brand/Market Share foothold is developed and expanded.

    Profile photo of Tom

    Hi Hugh,

    I respect your opinion, but I can’t agree with you on your assessment. If you cut an avantis in half, it would have a striking comparison to a QL1.

    – One big screen
    – More info to display on that screen (compared to something like an SQ)
    – Similar form factor
    – Similar fader count
    – Both made by major console companies
    – Both have expansion options (yamaha has a lot more here with their MY cards)
    – Pricing in the ball park.
    – I’m not sure how many people get excited in the diff btw 48k and 96k.

    Can’t agree with you on trashing yamaha preamps either. Heck, you and I have both seen posts on Gearslutz with a golden eared well known recordist using TF preamps.

    You might not make that comparison, but I suspect a number of consumers would. The real question is, “what does Allen and Heath think?”


    Profile photo of Hugh

    Tom, I am glad to have a reasoned discussion pursuant to the two existing subject small consoles. (QL1 & SQ5) I respect differing opinions however strongly believe it is important to quantify the historical progress that has occurred in all digital audio processing since the QL1 was released in March 2013. This is at the core of my less than favorable comments about the QL1’s re entry in the console market after the Yamaha 2+year “covid time out”.

    1) The QL1 does have a much bigger processing screen than the SQ5.
    2) Form factor & fader count in both are very similar and they are both offered by stable corporate entities.
    3) QL1 does have more expansion card slots.
    4) The MSRP price points: SQ5 $4,000. QL1 $10,000. (No where close to the same, The QL1 has a two and a half times greater price point)
    5) The SQ5 was released in Oct. 2017, three and a half years after the QL1, with a new pre amp design to optimize the new 24/96K FPGA XCIV core processing. IMO the sonic quality difference alone makes the SQ5 a much better value but after plugging in the price difference it becomes a no brainer..

    Tom, IMO this is where the rubber hits the road: the Steinberg D pres and Neve designed Steinberg processing Yamaha console core is still centered around first generation digital technology. The SQ line has expansion options that features D-Live I/Os or their new “Prime” I/O system that introduced a new world standard for detail and transparency and absolutely optimized their new generation leading FPGA XCIV core processing.
    The Yamaha flagship LS9 had the worst pres of any name brand console, there isn’t much disagreement about that fact, and this was the basis for my comment about the ground they needed to make up. The Steinberg “D” pres are a big up grade from the LS9 pre amp disaster however doubling the I/O transistors is not exactly in the same area code with the d-live system or most certainly the incredible Prime I/Os.

    I replace a grand piano with a Yamaha Stage piano in my studio years ago and I am delighted with the it’s dependable, maintenance free performance: however my experience with Yamaha consoles has not been as good. My grandson summed it up the best, He is the FOH mixer for a large church with a CL desk and his comment to me was “it is rather Clunky” to manage when compared to his personal A&H QU gear that also has yesterdays 24/48K technology.

    If Yamaha is going to stay relevant in the audio console market, they will need to forgo their past commitment to closed brand connectivity and develop better expansion options. The new Avantis IL screen is cutting edge technology that is light years ahead of the OL and with 24 faders to manage 64 inputs, it has 12 internal inputs and for the desk alone it is priced at 10K: adding a GX4816 expansion stage box and D pack adds $5,400. bringing it’s MSRP total 16K. The QL5 has a MSRP of 18K before needed expansion boxes are acquired. The main two points I want to make are: 1) The Yamaha desks are not readily adaptable to todays live scaled needs & 2) They are Way over priced for yesterdays technology.

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