Regarding Fader Resolution in DAW Mode

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This topic contains 12 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of KeithJ A&H KeithJ A&H 11 months, 3 weeks ago.

Viewing 13 posts - 1 through 13 (of 13 total)
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  • #91205
    Profile photo of Tobi
    Tobi
    Participant

    Hi,
    I would be interested to know the fader resolution in DAW Mode, as the MIDI spec is not clear to me about it.

    “Normal” MIDI Controllers use 7 Bit, which would make 128 steps Faderresolution. My Presonus Faderport 8 uses 10 Bits which makes 1024 steps Faderresolution.

    What does SQ do?

    Background of this question is: 127 steps would seem to be to little to be able to set up precise volumes — when sometimes a quarter of a dB makes the difference. With 10 Bit its no problem…

    Thanks and Best Regards,
    Tobias

    #91206
    Profile photo of SteffenR
    SteffenR
    Participant

    7 bits I guess

    #91207
    Profile photo of volounteer
    volounteer
    Participant

    @tobi

    if midi 7 bit is too little for you then dont use midi.

    I am so glad that my non-golden ears dont hear 1/4 dB.
    Nor can anyone who I do audio for.
    That makes life so much easier for me.
    And I can get the work done faster better easier cheaper too.

    #91209
    Profile photo of Tobi
    Tobi
    Participant

    Please… what should I think of your answer… I wanted to know the bit depth… not a discussion on ears. Either you have a helping answer or… Grandma Shumway once said: “If you have nothing helpful to say, maybe say nothing”.

    @steffen:
    I also guess 7 bits, but because I don’t completly understand the MIDI documentation I hoped someone from A&H could clarify?

    Thanks and Best Regards,
    Tobias

    #91210
    Profile photo of volounteer
    volounteer
    Participant

    @tobi

    I answered your question on bit depth.

    when midi does not do it then do not use midi

    I DID say something USEFUL

    LOUDER IS NOT BETTER was one I noted earlier
    And nobody NEEDS 1/4 dB resolution.

    Another useful thing I add
    do not confuse WANTS with NEEDS

    Grampa should stick to telling kids to stay off his lawn

    #91211
    Profile photo of Tobi
    Tobi
    Participant

    @volunteer
    Then please let me know all the other interfaces other than MIDI which can be used for DAW control. Again: Presonus has DAW-Control Faders with 10Bit and Faderport works very well with it.

    I still hope, anyone from A&H can answer this, before an argument breaks out?

    Thanks and Best Regards,
    Tobias

    #91212
    Profile photo of SteffenR
    SteffenR
    Participant

    Keith held a Facebook Live session on this

    DAW Control with SQ

    Keith's going live at 3pm UK time to show you how to control your DAW from SQ.

    Posted by ALLEN & HEATH on Tuesday, April 21, 2020

    #91213
    Profile photo of volounteer
    volounteer
    Participant

    @tobi

    after recording
    I just tweak the stems in the DAW without any midi being involved at all
    the inputs are close enough to work with and the DAW does all I need with great resolution

    AH will not change the 7 bit midi limitation

    #91214
    Profile photo of Tobi
    Tobi
    Participant

    @steffen
    Yepp… I originally planned to attend the session and ask him, but my child needed attention, so I thought I try it here… He currently is trying to sleep. On success I will watch the recording. My feeling is, he wont have answered my question there 🙂

    @volunteer
    Breaking the 7Bit is not rocket science. It would only mean that every fader sends two messages on different CC’s instead of only one. That could give a resolution of 14 Bit. Or use a Sysex Message. Or a note-Message and reuse note-value and velocity… again 14 Bit. So it is possible and it could be done easily. There are more ways.

    Please… I dont want to argue with you if you need or like that kind of feature. It works really well on faderport, especially in the lower region of the fader where the logarithmic scale is coarse. I want to know if I can replace my faderport with an SQ without loosing that. If you dont need more than 7 Bit – OK. If you think knowone needs it – also OK for me. But please allow me to ask the question, because at least I am interested in the answer.

    Thank you.

    #91215
    Profile photo of volounteer
    volounteer
    Participant

    @tobi

    trying to help you get around your problem.

    most anything could be fixed with more coding.
    dont hold your breath for AH to change the midi for you.

    try contacting your dealer or AH directly and ask them the question.

    #91222
    Profile photo of Tobi
    Tobi
    Participant

    Just in case anyone else is interested: In the Videocast on Facebook about SQ and DAW-Mode Keith explained that the faders use “normal” CC-Messages -> so 7 Bit.

    Best Regards,
    Tobias

    #91333
    Profile photo of Jline
    Jline
    Participant

    In firmware 1.5 there is a new option on the Midi page referring to NRPN Fader Law. This is from the manual:

    Touch the ‘NRPN Fader Law’ value to select the fader law used for control to and
    from SQ channel levels.

    Linear Taper = High resolution linear control for automation Audio
    Audio Taper = External MIDI faders match SQ faders

    Perhaps the Linear Taper mode would allow for higher resolution when writing automation?

    #91338
    Profile photo of KeithJ A&H
    KeithJ A&H
    Moderator

    @jline – The linear taper does allow for high resolution NRPN control, though this relates only to the control to and from the SQ core.

    As in the introduction of the MIDI protocol – “[MIDI] can be broken down into two sets of bi-directional messages. Those that are used with SQ mixing parameters (i.e. level control of SQ audio channels), and those used to control external software or equipment (e.g. to control a DAW)”

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