QU16 – EQ "Width" MIDI values jump and don't zero out

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This topic contains 8 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of ioTon ioTon 4 months, 3 weeks ago.

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  • #111375
    Profile photo of jBam
    jBam
    Participant

    Hi there – I’m wondering if I’m missing something, or if it’s a firmware limitation (in which case perhaps an update could include this??).

    I’m using my QU16 solely as a midi controller in the studio (and a mixer on the road and gigging) – in teh studio I have it mapped very nicely into Cubase 12 (via BOME MT for some extra functionality and to stop midi echo which was Cubases fault; not the QU).

    I’ve noticed, however, that the EQ “Width” knobs don’t actually send sequential midi data though – they jump in steps (which I assume corresponds with the nominated Q value in the unit). I’ve also noted that the LF and HF Width knobs don’t zero out… their lowest value is 05; and they won’t “middle out” either (they jump between 3D and 42…). I mean – maybe other controls do this too? I haven’t checked them all…

    Is there a way to allow these knobs to send their full NRPN resolution? At the moment it’s workable for controling DAW EQ Q values or other parameters with steps; but it’s a shame I can’t use it as a generic controller for finer matters (or things that need to centre out).

    If not possible, could this be considered for a future firmware update?? QU is SUCH a beast at almost everything it does, but it of course didn’t think of everything it might be used for… I think it’s potentially an amazing controller in the studio which these day’s is a popular option, and full resolution messages would be ideal for that.

    #111376
    Profile photo of jBam
    jBam
    Participant

    ACtually – as a secondary note to the comment above, it looks like many knobs send non-sequential values… again, I assume it’s because of the internal resolution they need to send… but it would be ideal if they sent sequentially.

    Most other knobs seem to send 00-02 (skipping 01). 00-01-02 would be ideal.

    Thanks for any input – hopefully I’m missing something

    #111379
    Profile photo of KeithJ A&H
    KeithJ A&H
    Moderator

    @jbam

    The reason for this (as I think you suspect) is that it’s not the knobs which send NRPN messages, it’s the values of the parameter in the core.

    So it’s not:
    Knob position > internal parameter
    and
    Knob position > MIDI

    instead it’s:
    Knob position > internal parameter > MIDI

    The NRPN messages are for control and automation of the mixer, unlike the MIDI channel strips which are designed to control externals.
    I’m afraid there are no plans to overhall the MIDI functionality of the mixer to change this, though of course if we get lots of requests we would look into it.

    Thanks,
    Keith.

    #111380
    Profile photo of jBam
    jBam
    Participant

    Cool – that’s what I suspected. Really appreciate the reply though :)…

    I love the QU16 – I’m a fan of working around “limitations” (or other intentions) rather than waiting for a specific-to-my-needs update (which I think would be an unfair expectation 😉 )… I’m diving into Bome MT at the moment – “should” be able to program in a workaround that registers a value change, and increments / decrements by 1 depending on which way a knob is turned. The “width” is a bit trickier as it stops at 00 and 7F, but I have an idea of how to fake the knob to think it’s still turning… so I should hopefully be fine to get them all up and running at full resolution!

    If you could see some of the things I’ve been able to do with this unit in BOME, you might change your mind on midi implementation though (or like, want to give it a try yourself that is lol)…

    e.g. I have an insane performance mixer using the custom layer in midi mode where each fader acts like a mod wheel for 16 different tracks on the QU… each modwheel style fader controls (up to) 16 internal and external parameters. So e.g. I might raise the ch 1 fader and it will simultaneously increase the internal HP filter cutoff, an FX send, another FX send and an external synthesier cutoff in one easy move. If I want to adjust how much moving the ch1 fader affects a given parameter, I can access this amount for each of the 16 parameters on any given channel using the PAFL button as a toggle (hit toggle for ch1; boom the faders snap to the 16 mod amounts for that channel for programming what the master fader does; hit it again, it’s back on the 16 master faders in performance mode). I have it set up for 8 mod destinations (not 16) – in pafl / programming mode I use one fader as an start value and another as an end value amount so the master fader isn’t always telling a parameter to start at zero… I can also hit Sel and it flips the selected indivdual fader to the actual QU ch volume for mixing. Hmm.. to be honest… after typing that out… lol… that all just sounds complicated nonsense…haha… But take my word for it – it’s very awesome for electronic music gigging, and easy peasy to use… 🙂

    I also have a 32 step 16 track midi sequencer on the go, using only the QU (and a bome box)… there’s a bit to go on this one, but it’s looking good so far, with 4 rows of automated faders per ch for note, velocity and 2 x CC sequencing (the 4 layers are toggled via the soft keys). I’ve pasued this as Bome has an update pending which enables me to save values (otherwise each sequence is lost on power down)… some updates are worth waiting for 🙂

    >>>

    Anyway, back on topic – if I solve the fader increment issue in bome, I’ll post here for anyone else who sees this post.

    #111390
    Profile photo of jBam
    jBam
    Participant

    Well – this is working REALLY nicely now :)… Better than I hoped to be honest.

    I have used BOME MT to translate the Width knobs track up and down with fine control (+/-1) for general knob turns; and then faster control movements (+/-4) for faster knob turns… and it works really well 🙂

    I’ll spell out the basics in case someone stumbles on this thread. I think it’s nice to find forum threads somewhat resolved :)…

    So:

    At the QU end, width knobs STOP low at 00 (or 05 – depending on the knob) and high at 7F, so to fake a continuous controller you need to (or I chose to):

    1) Grab the QU value and send it back to the QU straight away at a fixed value… I chose 25 (for the LF and HF Width… the LM and HM are different); which is 19 HEX. The width on the QU is ALWAYS now stuck at this value on the actual unit.
    2) Now when I turn a knob, it’s either higher than 25 or lower than 25… So i can work out if it’s up or down.
    3) I then code in a command to tell BOME to send an ACTUAL value out…

    Be aware with step 1 – anyone else diving in with bome needs to use the values that the QU unit actually uses – they jump values, so e.g. the next higher number from 25 is actually 30 (not 26) for width knobs; and the next lowest is actually 20 (not 24).

    The code below is what I settled on, where pp is the value recieved from the QU knob movement, and hb is the actual value it sends to Cubase…

    For Ch1 LF width:

    Incoming:
    B0 63 20
    B0 62 03
    B0 06 pp
    B0 26 07

    Rules:

    // I set the hb value here that gets sent to cubase)

    // increments (fine then coarse):
    if pp==30 then hb=hb+1
    if pp>=36 then hb=hb+4

    // decrements (fine then coarse):
    if pp==20 then hb=hb-1
    if pp<=15 then hb=hb-4

    //Limits:
    if hb<=0 then hb=0
    if hb>=127 then hb=127

    //rr value to send back to QU (25)
    rr=25

    Outgoing: (I reset the controller to value 25)

    B0 63 20
    B0 62 03
    B0 06 rr
    B0 26 07

    There’s a few other translators involved (one to recieve DAW–>QU data so on screen values set the value of hb correctly; and a spearate one that simply send the hb value to Cubase).

    For the DAW-QU recieve data step, there’s also some other quirks to watch out for, at least with cubase… cubase seems to be sending back wierd NRPN messages, which also vary the data LSB, even though the QU doesn’t… so I had to set that as a local variable (unused) for BOME to actually recieve the data MSB:

    Incoming:
    B0 63 20
    B0 62 03
    B0 06 pp
    B0 26 rr

    (pp is the value; but set “rr” so BOME ignores the nonesense data LSB coming in from cubase…)

    Outgoing:
    hb=pp

    (so we can get the pinged value back from cubase which stops parameter jumps in DAW)

    #111422
    Profile photo of KeithJ A&H
    KeithJ A&H
    Moderator

    @jbam

    This is awesome! and excellent thinking on the workaround 🙂

    Personally, I own a BomeBox and use that and MIDI Translator Pro for all sorts of things, so you’re preaching to the converted.
    For anyone else who comes across this though – Bome (https://www.bome.com/) have a range of MIDI solutions including translator apps and the stand-alone hardware BomeBox which can run translations without a computer.
    Since firmware V1.2, the BomeBox can automatically connect to A&H consoles (dLive, GLD, Qu, SQ, and iLive) on the same network and add them as a MIDI source/destination, which can then be patched to other USB, 5-pin or network MIDI connections with or without translation.
    This means you can hook up a MIDI control surface to control the mixer, or use any of the mixers MIDI output messages to control other equipment (as jBam is doing here).

    Thanks for sharing!
    Keith.

    #111425
    Profile photo of jBam
    jBam
    Participant

    Ah cool, nice one Keith… glad at least someone read that / understood it 🙂 Bome is such a great tool, hey… Bomebox is next level for live stuff.

    I’m slowly working through daw integration ideas for the qu16… fun to come up with ideas and work them out. I have a few toggle layers in mind…

    I’ll share useful new findings and scripts here on the forums at some point, and one day… that qu16 midi sequencer will live too lol 😆

    #119663
    Profile photo of seolink30
    seolink30
    Participant

    Thank you, it was helpful.

    #119701
    Profile photo of ioTon
    ioTon
    Participant

    Top!
    I use Bomebox to integrate external Hardware like fader port and footswitch.

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