Automation with Logic

[tutu13]

Hello everyone !
Do you know where I could find a tutorial that explains how to configure Logic to record and replay my SQ’s faders movements?
Attention I do not seek to control Logic with the SQ but to automate the SQ with Logic.
Thanks

[Fab]

This tutorial says sq control logic, but it s actually a bi directional control, so your sq faders should be able to read
an automation written from logic .

[Fab]

This tutorial says sq control logic, but it s actually a bi directional control, so your sq faders should be able to read
an automation written from logic .

[tutu13]

Thanks Fab, on these videos, the SQ faders control those of Logic, and vice versa. To do this, you must assign each SQ fader to a “MIDI” channel in the “Strip Assign” menu. But no sound goes through a MIDI channel, I would like to control the “Input” channels to mix in the desk.

[KeithJ A&H]

@tutu13

If you just want to record and playback the NRPN messages which control the SQ itself, it’s fairly straightforward:

• Make sure you have a MIDI connection to Logic, this can be over USB-B or via a network using the A&H MIDI Control app set to use ‘MIDI Thru’ (https://www.allen-heath.com/midi-control/)
• Add an external MIDI track. Don’t ‘use external instrument’ plugin thingy.
• Set the input port for the MIDI track to come from the SQ.
• Set the output port to ‘Off’ for now.
• Make sure the track is set to record, then hit record to record fader movements, panning and mutes. This can be at the same time as recording or just playing back audio from other tracks.

For playback,

• Set the output port as the output going to the SQ.
• Press play!

The reason for not setting the output to go to the SQ whilst recording is because you will create a MIDI feedback loop, where both Logic and the SQ will be monitoring (sending) the MIDI they’re receiving.

If you want to start editing the MIDI you’ve recorded, then check out the SQ MIDI Protocol document, which explains all the types of MIDI messages the SQ sends and responds to.
https://www.allen-heath.com/media/SQ-MIDI-Protocol-Issue4.pdf

Have fun!

Cheers,
Keith.

[tutu13]

oh, here’s an interesting lead, I’ll dive into it. Thanks Keith!!

[tutu13]

Yes Keith, it works but there are many manipulations.
My plan to be able to edit a track volume by simply clicking points on my automation curve is compromised.
The problem is that an SQ fader must be controlled via MIDI with 3 different parameters !!

[KeithJ A&H]

@tutu13

An SQ NRPN message is a single message, but it is the same as 4 specific CC messages. So if you only have control over CC messages (rather than 14-bit NRPN) then it is tricky.

BUT
That’s exactly what the ‘CC Translator’ option in the A&H MIDI Control app is for. This will translate the NRPN messages to/from CC messages that can be easily automated.
Please refer to the help document here – https://www.allen-heath.com/content/uploads/2023/02/AH-MIDI-Control-V2.01-Help_Iss2.pdf
The first page explains what’s going on, then there is more detail on the CC messages from pg6.

Hope this helps (if not, contact us directly through support.allen-heath.com),
Keith.

[tutu13]

I’ve been messing around with MIDI Control app for days with no results… there’s something I don’t get.

Does MIDI Control app allow Logic to control one SQ’s fader with a single MIDI parameter?

[tutu13]

Merci Keith,

To hear you talk, everything seems simple, but I don’t know enough about MIDI to know for example how to write a “BN CH VA” message in Logic (what does the letter “B” mean?).

I created 4 virtual ports with the Mackie protocol, but is “DAW Control MIDI” really useful in the case where I want to control the SQ from Logic and not the other way around?

With A&H MIDI Control, I managed to communicate from Logic to the SQ via TCP/IP, and to automate the SQ faders by assigning a MIDI Control per channel (0/Bank MSB=channel 1, 1/Modulation=channel 2, etc…) and by creating automation curves.

This works, however I wonder if I am using the right method, because if I disable automation in Logic the SQ faders continue to move.

With the 127 MIDI Controls I managed to control the volume of all inputs, groups, FX returns, aux sends from ip1 to ip5. But beyond these 127 parameters how to access the rest of the faders?

Another problem arises, the A&H MIDI Control application manual states: “Mute on uses a Note On message with a velocity of 01, Mute off uses a Note Off message with a velocity of 00.”
By creating a MIDI region with notes of velocity 01, I can mute the channels, but Logic does not offer a velocity 00 so I can not reactivate them! So how to create Note Offs?

I also did not find a way to change scenes when opening a Logic project, it is easy to do if the MacBook is connected to the SQ via USB, but not via TCP/IP.

As you can see I’m digging around and trying to figure it out on my own, but I’m not sure I’m going in the right direction.
I don’t dare add up the wasted hours, so before going any further, could you at least guarantee me that it’s possible from a DAW, at the same time:

– to control all the faders of the SQ?
– to control all the Mute?
– to change scenes when opening a Logic project?

… or do I have to call on third-party app other than A&H MIDI Control (Bome Translator, for example)?

[KeithJ A&H]

@tutu13

The ‘B’ at the beginning of that message just indicates that it’s a CC message.

Yes, you can control all faders (send levels) and mutes of the SQ from Logic, I would imagine you can also send a program change from Logic to recall a specific scene.
To control all levels and mutes though, you will need to use the NRPN messages to get access to more than 128 continuous parameters.
It sounds like the first diagram in the MIDI Control Help document might be most helpful to you to begin with. Note that there are different ‘modes’ depending on what you’re doing.
Use DAW Control for control of the DAW from the mixer using the mixers’ MIDI channel strips.
Use MIDI Thru for complete NRPN control of the mixer (sounds like this is the one you want).
Use CC Translator for simplified control using CC messages.

As a slight aside, you don’t actually need to connect through the A&H MIDI Control app if you’re sending the correct messages to the USB-B Audio/MIDI interface. So if you’re connecting via USB already, and don’t need to manage the TCP network connection, carry out any translation or control logic faders from the desk, consider not running the app to avoid confusion with ports.

You’ll then need to look at how to send NRPN messages from Logic – a quick google showed some results for controlling synths, and the concept will be exactly the same, except using the parameter numbers/values detailed in the MIDI protocol document.
Sending a program change from Logic to the SQ directly via the USB connection, or via the MIDI Thru option in A&H MIDI Control will recall a scene (if there is one stored). So you’ll also need to check with Apple/Logic how to send a program change.

I would still suggest downloading and working with Bomes MIDI Translator as it may give you a better understanding of the messages and help with any fault finding.

If you need more assistance with this on the SQ side, please contact us directly by submitting a ticket through support.allen-heath.com

Thanks,
Keith.

[tutu13]

Thanks Keith, I want to use TCP/IP to control the SQ as well as to receive/send audio to the SQ via the Dante card (+ RME digiface), because the USB port of the SQ must be used to record the lives (multitrack) on a second computer.

And the CC>NRPN conversion seems useful to me if I want to be able to control faders with LOGIC automation curves.

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