First Fader returns to zero with NO REASON

[alanpower]

hey everybody,
we’re using our Mixrack DM48 combined with our C1500 console with great results.

one issue we still have is when we change the page on the surface, the first fader goes down to minus-infinite (lower position) for NO REASON. no matter which channel the first fader is associated with, the moment we change the page, the first page goes down. and it occurs 30-40% of the time we change the page (not always).

without the console (Director only) it never happens.

any help is well appreciated.

thanks a lot.
Alan

[Charles]

Under the Util/Shows button – Utility tab – Diagnostics – Automatic mode

When it happens again, capture a video of the diagnostics on the sliders. I have had to replace all banks of sliders 1x and waiting on the arrival now for complete replacement #2.

This has broken my show more than once when I switch banks and it turns a vocal mic down or if I’m in monitor mix mode it has changed the level of that channel in someone’s IEM. I have the S7000 and had plenty of extra channels to work around it until the replacement arrives.

[alanpower]

really I can’t believe it is a hardware problem.
seen the strange behavior I likely think it’s rather a software problem, but who knows!

any help is still appreciated.
Alan

[Charles]

I would agree with you because the fader does work at times. This is the solution I’m given.

[Brian]

I’m not arguing the point here and definitely defer to whatever A&H support suggests, but I also find it hard to believe it is a hardware issue given the symptoms. At least with the Avantis, hardware fader issues (which have been far too common unfortunately) results in faders that DON’T change when you change layers, etc. Obviously this will have a negative affect on your mix too, but I haven’t seen a situation where the fader goes to zero unexpectedly when switching layers. If anything it proves the fader motor is working, buy not getting the correct signal from the software.

[Joe]

Our S5000 is a little over 3 years old. I’ve seen a similar intermittent issue where the last fader of a bank of 12 (and a bank of 8) will not transition from zero. I can flip through pages back and forth and the issue will happen maybe 25% of the time. However, after the system has been cycled on/off, the issue disappears. It has come back maybe 3 times over the last 6 months, but we now know to reboot if noticed during a sound check. I wish there was a way to fix it in the middle of a show without rebooting!

I do believe that there is likely an underlying hardware problem, but at the same time I think that the firmware isn’t robust enough to deal with aging motorized faders. To me the issue might be with how the console boots up to initialize the fader banks given that the problem disappears for a while after a reboot. But maybe that is just the failure mode in my situation.

@Charles: Thank you for the tip about the diagnostics screen.

[Jimmy]

I had the same thing happen during a live event last night on a C3500 /CDM48 setup. It was a different fader for me. (Bank A #10). The VJ was at full volume and when I changed back onto his layer (A) from the layer I was on, it brought him to zero. Was not a good moment.

I was able to replicate the issue in front of my boss and another member of our team and got myself off the hook, but we can’t be having that problem again and be expecting to remain employed.

In recalling sound check earlier in the day, I also noticed my iPad fader would snap back to zero as soon as I let it go and it was only on the VJ fader, same fader. As soon as I went to the console and physically moved the fader, my iPad worked fine. It makes me wonder if there is some sort of sync problem between the iPad and the CDM.

[msteel]

One of our (3) C2500 surfaces has had several bad faders that I have replaced.
In each case it was as Brian said, the faders would not move when they were supposed to. Switching from a bank where the fader was down it would stay down, I didn’t always notice and then when coming back to the bank the fader was down. This could happen when switching mixes as well, the old fader position would be applied to the new parameter.

I have found that recalibrating the faders can help, at least in the early stages and at least for a while. It might be a little faster than rebooting the surface, but I would hate to do that during a show either because it takes tens of seconds.

[Aaron L.]

My S7000 (connected to CDM-64, surface running FW 1.97) started having the same issue beginning in November 2023. Intermittently, when pushing “go” to recall a scene, the entire second bank of 8 faders would snap to -infinity. There is no correlation with a specific scene or a specific show; I was able to replicate this in another show — it’s inconsistent.

The suggestion was to replace the fader bank. I just replaced all faders, and now I have a hardware discovery issue. Fun times. I am not convinced this was a hardware topic to begin with.

For anyone at Allen & Heath reading: this is a critical point of failure that gives me a serious lack of confidence. This can’t happen — this could force me to jump to another manufacturer with a quickness.

[SteffenR]

Other manufacturers have similar problems these days.

Some of them have consoles that don’t boot at times.
And we don’t talk about the cheap ones.

[Nicola A&H]

Aaron, rest assured we take quality very seriously and have made significant steps forward on the longevity of faders and fader boards by working with the supplier to continuously improve the design.

[Author]

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