Controlling hardware insert via fader?

[RikerParticipant]

Hello,

I have an SQ-6. I connected an UAD Apollo X4 to my SQ-6 to use as an channel insert for running AutoTune via the UAD DSP of the Apollo. I connected Output 9 of SQ-6 to Input 1 of Apollo, set Input as LINE in. Connected Input 9 on SQ-6 to Output 1 on Apollo. My Vocal microphone is on on S-Link 10 (AB168).

I then configured the INSERT of my vocal channel (on S-Link 10): Send using local socket 9, Return local socket 9.
When I activate the insert, everything works perfectly fine. I get the Auto Tuned pitch corrected vocals coming out of PA speakers which is what I want. But, if I want to turn off that pitch processing, I have to De-Activate (take out) the Insert on the vocal channel.

When I select Local Input 9, I see activity in the meter, which is great. But the MUTE, or Fader does nothing. Would be nice if I could configure a Soft Button to MUTE All “inserts” of pitch correction, for speaking between songs as an example. I plan on having at least 4 vocal channels, each going through an Apollo channel for AutoTune and other (compressors, EQ) processing, so a “one soft button” to switch on and off the inserts would be extremely helpful.

I’ve also tried Send local socket 9 and Return local socket 10, but did not change anything. Also tried “Analog” vs “Digital” in the Insert section, no effect.

I don’t know if I’m doing this properly ? I feel that I’m not 😉

Any advice, suggestions would be greatly appreciated. !!

Thank you all.
Stephane

[SteffenRParticipant]

I don’t understand the problem. If you turn off the insert, the signal goes not through the Apollo. That’s how it is intended to work.
And normally inserts sending signals all the time, so you can set up your insert FX without enabling it.
Only the return gets switched to the signal before the send.

If you mute an insert, no signal is coming through anymore. MUTE=QUIET

[RikerParticipant]

If you mean De-Activating the insert is the same as the Mute button, ok, I guess it’s the same. I am trying to understand what, if anything, is happening at the channel I chose as the Send and Return, not the channel that has the Insert IN/OUT available. As in my example above, Vocal mic is physically connected to AB168 via S-Link on input 10. When I select that channel, input 10, and then click on INSERT, and create an insert I used Local Channel socket behind the SQ-6, input and output socket 9, I see levels in the meter, but the fader of local input socket 9 has zero effect, nor does the MUTE button of that channel.

If that is normal operation, then that’s fine, I just want to understand if that is the case. My original thought was that Fader on channel 9 should control the amount of external processed signal, but does not seem to be the case.

[TobiParticipant]

Hi Riker,
no. Sorry — but either you are using really different words for the technical terms than we do or you really have to go back to the basics.

> If you mean De-Activating the insert is the same
> as the Mute button, ok, I guess it’s the same.

That is wrong. And the fader (and the mute button) will not have an effect of the level which gets send through the insert points, because the fader is later in the processing chain. The SQ datasheet contains a block diagramm of the signal flow on page 5, there you can see: https://www.allen-heath.com/content/uploads/2023/05/SQ-5-Technical-Datasheet_G.pdf.

Best Regards,
Tobias

[SteffenRParticipant]

I am trying to understand what, if anything, is happening at the channel I chose as the Send and Return, not the channel that has the Insert IN/OUT available.

You don’t use channels for the I/O, you just use sockets.

[ioTonParticipant]

Hi Riker,

I assume Local Input 9 is routed to the Insert Return of your Vocal Channel Strip AND in the same time as Input to your Channel Strip 9.
So on Channel 9 you get the Return also to your Main Out. But that’s nonsense. (At least in your case, and also most of the time, maybe it make sense in some little use cases…)

The best is to unassign the Input to Channel 9, because the return is already patched back in your Vocal channel

Greetings dd

[RikerParticipant]

Hi ioTon,

Yes !, that is exactly the case, I’m using local socket input 9 ie: “channel 9”. Un-assigning local input channel 9 from local socket 9 makes perfect sense and I did not do that so Thank You !!!.

Was just trying to make sense of the relationship between local sockets inputs and outputs, and the corresponding default assigned channels, as it relates to using INSERTS for external gear on a different channel.

Next I will try and setup a Soft Button to automatically “un” insert / Turn OFF the Insert from multiple vocal channels in one go. I have 5 vocalist in this band and they all need some “help” with pitch correction, hence why I’m using Apollo DSP + Autotune. I might go Soundgrid in the future but for now I’m using what I have on hand. During the songs, FOH (only) will hear pitched corrected vocals but between songs when they talk to the audience, I don’t want any pitch correction to happen, so need to turn off the insert on all, or at least most of the vocal channels, easily and quickly, then turn back on for next song.

Thanks again everyone, much appreciated.

[BrianParticipant]

Besides using scenes to easily turn on/off the inserts (which is what I typically do), you can instead double patch your vocal channels with one “tuned” channel and one “not tuned” channel.

For example, input 9 is your regular “non-tuned” main vocal. Then set up channel 10 with the same source (vocal mic), but set it up to use the insert and the vocal tuning. You can use the faders to blend the tuned/untuned vocals together, or have the fader/mute available to output whatever signal you want. Pull the tuned vocal down and the untuned vocal up for speaking parts, and reverse it for singing parts. Again you could use mute groups, DCAs, or scenes to manage this across multiple vocal mics at the same time.

I haven’t used the SQ, but I’m guessing it has some type of channel “ganging” where you can link the two channel’s processing (gate, eq, compression, etc) together if you want to ensure that an EQ change on one main vocal channel would also be made on the “other” main vocal channel. (I know this is possible with the Avantis for example).

[RikerParticipant]

Thank you Brian.

That was what I was thinking as well last night as I was trying to fall asleep ! 😉 Having tuned vocal channels and un-processed vocals channels and flipping between the 2 via Mutes. A scene would also work and I was going to try that too. not sure if it’s quicker and easier with channels / mute or with changing scenes.

The other thing also is that I want to send un-tuned vocals, but EQed to the floor wedges for the artist. So, I kind of need 3 versions LOL.. one FOH Tuned during songs, one FOH un-tuned between songs and one un-tuned always on for wedges. All 3 versions would have some internal SQ processing on the channels such as HPF, EQ, Comp.

It’s a good thing the SQ has 48 channels of processing !! 😉

Yes the SQ has ganging feature, but I wouldn’t mess with any of the settings on the FOH Un-tuned or the floor wedge un-tuned. I might tweak comp and EQ on main processed (tuned) channels only so probably not a feature I would need to use in this specific case.

Maybe scene change is best option given the need for 3 different configuration of vocals X 5 vocalist. Now I only need un-tuned on 2 mics, not all 5 as the other players never speak to audience, 90% is main male singer, 10% his wife singer.

I’ll do some exploration of this and see which option is best for my needs. Thanks again for the suggestion and advice, I really appreciate it !!
Cheers,
Riker

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