Low output from mixes

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This topic contains 8 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of martijn martijn 9 years, 6 months ago.

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  • #23081
    Profile photo of Oscar-Soderlund
    Oscar-Soderlund
    Participant

    Hi,

    This is something I thought of over since I first worked with the iLive.

    The mixes are a bit low in output.
    When you do monitors, your aux buses are almost clipping at times.
    Same this doing IEM’s, especially on drums.
    And I have noticed it on some FOH shows too,
    when your master is more or less constant on yellow.
    It’s most often no problem of telling the system person to bump you up couple of db’s.

    But now some of my rental clients are asking for a way of boosting the signal
    out from the desk to the amps or IEM’s. So they can be more in control of their setup.
    And not have to ask the house guys for that extra db lift.

    Is there a sensitivity switch in the box for the outputs, or can it be done software-wise
    Looking at throwing in a couple of ATI 8MX2, XTA DS800 or Symetrix Solus in the monitor and FOH racks.
    But it would be great to be able to fix this in the mixer.

    And by that, I am not meaning by raising comp gain or anything like that.
    That would just make people go, “iLive?!, Yeah, but their output signal is a bit weak, aren’t they?”.

    Love the way the faders work in monitor applications.
    When I person ask for a little bit more of something in their mix, you just raise the fader one bar and its perfect. VERY precise action. Love that.
    So I would not like that preciseness to suffer from a level increasement of outputs sensitivity.

    Any ideas around this ?

    Parashoot
    Sweden

    #29298
    Profile photo of Nicola A&H
    Nicola A&H
    Keymaster

    Hi Oscar,

    I would have thought iLive output is not much different from other consoles in terms of signal amplitude. I’m inclined to think this is due to the particular nature of the meters, which might mislead an unfamiliar engineer. iLive meters are fast response digital absolute peak meters. This ensures you keep control and avoid digital clipping of signals including those with very fast dynamics. But, on the other hand, it means the meters typically read hotter than those on other consoles you are used to. It is perfectly ok to work with meters reading well into the yellow!

    Nicola
    A&H

    #29371
    Profile photo of Geddy
    Geddy
    Participant

    Hi Oscar, Nicola,
    ILive outputs are +4dBU at 0dB reading, as standard for professional audio equipment. As I got my iLive (iDR48/T112) I checked it with NTi XL2 meter and the levels were pretty fine as specified. You got 18dB headroom which relates in +22dBU output. Clipping LED’s starts flashing at +15dB reading.
    As +4dBU at 0dB reading is a standard everbody should be able to work with. You can avoid to be asked for more signal if you offer a test signal at the beginning of the first sound tests. I do that, as everybody can level his equipment as required it prevents you from trouble afterwards.

    Maybe you should have a check with a external level meter to exclude any hardware faults in your system.

    Cheers,
    Gunter

    Günter Eisbach
    dL-Recording
    Darmstadt / Germany

    #29374
    Profile photo of Oscar-Soderlund
    Oscar-Soderlund
    Participant

    Thanks guys,

    I’ll look into this more serious.
    Gunther,
    I have a xl2 as well.
    How do I use it to check my outputs?

    Best Regards,

    Oscar

    Parashoot
    Sweden

    #29376
    Profile photo of Geddy
    Geddy
    Participant

    Hi Oscar,

    Activate the iLive signal generator sin wave 1kHz i.e. and level it exact to 0db.
    Route it to a selected output, and connect the XL2 via XLR-cable to this socket. Select in XL2 menu the option RMS/THD, and Z-weighting.
    The LVLRMS should now exact indicate +4dBU.

    Cheers,
    Gunter

    Günter Eisbach
    dL-Recording
    Darmstadt / Germany

    #29378
    Profile photo of Oscar-Soderlund
    Oscar-Soderlund
    Participant

    Thanks Günther,

    Measures at +4dbu.

    Thanks,

    Parashoot
    Sweden

    #29379
    Profile photo of Robert
    Robert
    Participant

    i have also had some problems with connecting iLive to some processors especially with XTA processors.

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    #29381
    Profile photo of millst
    millst
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by Robert

    i have also had some problems with connecting iLive to some processors especially with XTA processors.


    +1 I have to run my XTA’s at +6 to get it about right on the iLive. Even then, its still reading +6 on the iLive meters to get be just into 0 on the XTA.
    Its fine using driveracks, but the iLive / XTA pairing seems odd.

    #29382
    Profile photo of martijn
    martijn
    Participant

    XTA Meters are relative to the Limiter settings!
    They are not absolute meters!

    As Nicola was explaining there is a difference between PEAK metering and RMS.

    There is a 3dbu difference between Peak and RMS.
    (Peak being hotter on the meters!)

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