[RikerParticipant]

ok yes that makes sense now, it explains why I could hear the Dry vocals and not the FX. I will switch monitor mix to Post Fader as you suggest and try that out this afternoon.

Thanks again ! really appreciate it ! 🙂

[RikerParticipant]

Thank you for the clarification, it can be a challenge to understand someone’s intentions or feelings on the internet ! Easy to forget that English is not everyone’s primary language.

I use my SQ-6 primarily as a Studio Interface for tracking with the occasional Live gig, at least it’s been that way for a couple of years now. I like the large I/O count of the SQ-6 so I can track / record many instruments and output mixes to many headphones for musicians. I have an AB168 stage box which gives me an additional 16 in and 8 outs.

I have a “one room” studio so when I track musicians with instruments and vocal microphones I mute or turn down the master fader so that the SQ-6 does not output sound to my studio monitors during that process. That is why the channel faders were down to zero on the main mix bus, because I did not want any sound to come out of my monitors and into the microphones in the room. Now, I could have just Muted the Main L/R bus while keeping the channel faders are Unity, but did not do it that way.

So, with the musicians (which included myself in my last session) each having their own Headphone Mix through AUX outputs on SQ-6 they hear the balance they want ie: bass, drums, vocals, guitar etc..

The issue was that the lead vocalist asked me for some Reverb on his vocals, in his headphones. So I was trying to send FX unit 1 (Reverb) to his vocal channel on his AUX and that did not work, even though the FX1 Send and FX1 Rtn Fader was UP on his AUX mix, there was no reverb.

Yesterday as I was trying to figure this out I happen to notice the Vocal channel fader on the MAIN mix was down, once I turned it up, reverb was there.

What confused me is that he could hear his dry vocals loud and clear in his AUX mix / headphones EVEN though his vocal channel was at Zero on Main Mix, but no reverb. To get reverb I had to raise his vocal channel on Main Mix, then it worked.

So it looks like the FX mix is getting it’s source signal from the Main Mix only, not from the AUX. It sounds reasonable that it works this way, but what I did not get was Why dry vocals in Aux mix worked with Main fader down, but not FX ? that is what I did not understand.

I do get your point about Pre Fader and Post Fader, very good point and I guess that’s why I can still hear the reverb even when I pull down the source channel ie: vocal channel and I see where this could be a problem.

Thank you again for your help and advice, I really do appreciate it and glad we sorted things out, all good my friend.
Cheers

[RikerParticipant]

“I find it difficult to empathize with your way of working.
Effects are usually always post fader – so the channel fader as well as its FX fader must be open if you want the FX to get anywhere.
And of course the FX return fader must also be open in the desired mix.”

I find it difficult to understand that sentence. If you did not like my question, you didn’t have to reply to it. 😉
It’s not “my way of working”. I thought, incorrectly, that having the channel Fader AT UNITY on the AUX MIX would have “fed” the FX, but it does not, it is the MAIN L/R Bus fader that must be up for FX to work in AUX, along with Sends and Returns of course.

In any case, Thank you for your input

[RikerParticipant]

After some more digging, I might have found the issue.

this trips me up every single time.

The Vocal channel, or any channel for that matter, was DOWN to Zero on the MAIN L/R BUS. Because I was ONLY using the AUX for headphones and a tracking session, and I was NOT using my Main L/R Speakers while tracking, I never brought up the Fader on the Main L/R Bus. Once I did that, AND brought up the FXRtn on the AUX channel.. low and behold.. REVERB.

When I do Live Sound, that’s not an issue since the channel faders are all very close to Unity on the Main L/R bus for for FOH and I get Reverb on FOH AND I get reverb on AUX (wedges or In Ears)

But when I use my SQ-6 to track a band in my studio, I don’t use my Main speakers so the Main L/R bus is muted during tracking. I only Un Mute when we listen back to the recordings, but the microphones are all down to Zero on the Main L/R mix since I don’t need them for playback, or for recording.

I don’t think I still FULLY understand the FX routing but maybe through “luck” I ended up moving the fader up on Main L/R and the Return on the AUX and I got reverb in the headphones which is what I wanted to get.

[RikerParticipant]

Hi SQUser, thank you for your reply. Yes I have verified that the screen, from page 42 and your attached picture, does indeed show it is enabled.

With AUX 1 Selected, then Routing I see a “blank” pink box in the FX Send section (bottom box) on the first “bar” 1 ? The blank box is actually at Unity / zero, but being blank means no signal or routing right ? Now, the box just above: MIX Send, does have a solid green bar at unity and if I adjust the Fader of FX1Rtn that green box moves with my fader moves. I am looking at AUX 1 faders for both FX1Snd and FX1Rtn and both physical faders are up to unity.

Now, if I Select FX 1 button, under Routing, the FX Send box at the bottom does show a solid Pink bar as I move the fader of the vocal channel. So it looks like the vocal channel is Sending it’s signal into FX1 properly.

sorry if I’m not explaining myself as clearly as I could.

[RikerParticipant]

Hi SQuser,

You bring up a very good point 😉 I did not consider the stereo imaging of the pedal. I think that for this one specific singer the Radial JS2 splitter would be a good option for a couple of reasons. First, I would be able to send one mic signal to my on stage AB168 for the un processes signal on it’s own channel, and a second signal to the voicelive pedal which would then connect to AB168 on stereo input on it’s own channel. This would allow me to switch between wet and dry channels and also if the pedal malfunctions or whatever, I can take it out of the equation completely and go to un processed channel.

Given that I’ll be running a fairly complex setup, I want to have redundancy / backup signal paths as much as possible, just in case. The other lead singer does not have any pedal on stage, for her I will double patch her mic input and have one channel with INSERT processing and another channel without inserts / processing.

I think this scenario gives me the most flexibility, better sound and most of all, a quick “way out” if sh*t hits the fan !!!

Thanks again

[RikerParticipant]

Thank you again Brian for digging into this, it is very much appreciated. The singer only uses the VoiceLive for reverb, pitch correction and the harmonizer on some choruses. The acoustic guitar is not connected to the VoiceLive, it is connected to a L.R Baggs Venue DI pedal to make the acoustic guitar sound better than simple DI.

So, in this case, if I understand correctly I would have a wet signal AND and dry signal coming from the VoiceLive to the SQ on 2 separate channels. That way I would simply have to mute / unmute / adjust faders between the wet channel and the dry channel and not worry about the current “state” of the pedal. Well, other than the Harmonizer being left on during the songs LOL :-). But this would definitively allow me to “flip” between wet vocals during song and dry vocals between songs.

Awesome.

Thank you so much Brian, as always you are an incredible source of knowledge and expertise on this forum. !!

[RikerParticipant]

so essentially use the INSERT point on the SQ to use the VoiceLive pedal. I could have one channel with insert on (pedal) and one channel with no inserts. I guess that would work as well. I’ll try the suggested scenarios and recommendations and see which way I prefer.

Thanks again.

[RikerParticipant]

Thank you guys !

Double patching on the SQ seems like the way to go. I’m also going to look at the voicelive in more detail and see if I can send out a clean signal like you said.

I’m also thinking of putting that VoiceLive pedal next to me at the FOH console, because I can’t trust the singer to know when to click it off, or when to engage or disengage Harmony… it’s a long story but basically he’s 70+ so can’t handle much more than singing and playing acoustic guitar. Yes, I’m the only “soundguy” for this one band and I do all their gigs so I’m dedicated to them only at this time.

Was looking at the Radial JS2 to split before the VoiceLive so that I don’t have to take care of turning off the voicelive AND move faders / mutes at the same time between every song of a 35 song show. But, like you said, more points of failure etc..

Thanks again guys

[RikerParticipant]

Thank you Brian.

That was what I was thinking as well last night as I was trying to fall asleep ! 😉 Having tuned vocal channels and un-processed vocals channels and flipping between the 2 via Mutes. A scene would also work and I was going to try that too. not sure if it’s quicker and easier with channels / mute or with changing scenes.

The other thing also is that I want to send un-tuned vocals, but EQed to the floor wedges for the artist. So, I kind of need 3 versions LOL.. one FOH Tuned during songs, one FOH un-tuned between songs and one un-tuned always on for wedges. All 3 versions would have some internal SQ processing on the channels such as HPF, EQ, Comp.

It’s a good thing the SQ has 48 channels of processing !! 😉

Yes the SQ has ganging feature, but I wouldn’t mess with any of the settings on the FOH Un-tuned or the floor wedge un-tuned. I might tweak comp and EQ on main processed (tuned) channels only so probably not a feature I would need to use in this specific case.

Maybe scene change is best option given the need for 3 different configuration of vocals X 5 vocalist. Now I only need un-tuned on 2 mics, not all 5 as the other players never speak to audience, 90% is main male singer, 10% his wife singer.

I’ll do some exploration of this and see which option is best for my needs. Thanks again for the suggestion and advice, I really appreciate it !!
Cheers,
Riker

[RikerParticipant]

Hi ioTon,

Yes !, that is exactly the case, I’m using local socket input 9 ie: “channel 9”. Un-assigning local input channel 9 from local socket 9 makes perfect sense and I did not do that so Thank You !!!.

Was just trying to make sense of the relationship between local sockets inputs and outputs, and the corresponding default assigned channels, as it relates to using INSERTS for external gear on a different channel.

Next I will try and setup a Soft Button to automatically “un” insert / Turn OFF the Insert from multiple vocal channels in one go. I have 5 vocalist in this band and they all need some “help” with pitch correction, hence why I’m using Apollo DSP + Autotune. I might go Soundgrid in the future but for now I’m using what I have on hand. During the songs, FOH (only) will hear pitched corrected vocals but between songs when they talk to the audience, I don’t want any pitch correction to happen, so need to turn off the insert on all, or at least most of the vocal channels, easily and quickly, then turn back on for next song.

Thanks again everyone, much appreciated.

[RikerParticipant]

If you mean De-Activating the insert is the same as the Mute button, ok, I guess it’s the same. I am trying to understand what, if anything, is happening at the channel I chose as the Send and Return, not the channel that has the Insert IN/OUT available. As in my example above, Vocal mic is physically connected to AB168 via S-Link on input 10. When I select that channel, input 10, and then click on INSERT, and create an insert I used Local Channel socket behind the SQ-6, input and output socket 9, I see levels in the meter, but the fader of local input socket 9 has zero effect, nor does the MUTE button of that channel.

If that is normal operation, then that’s fine, I just want to understand if that is the case. My original thought was that Fader on channel 9 should control the amount of external processed signal, but does not seem to be the case.

[RikerParticipant]

Got it.

Thank you very much.

[RikerParticipant]

After more testing / troubleshooting, I got it to work.. but I’m not sure it’s the optimal way ?

In Studio One, I/O Setup, I have available up to 32 inputs and 32 outputs. I assume that is because the SQ-6 is a 32in/32out USB audio interface. So I created a Mono input, let’s channel 21, and a corresponding output also on channel 21.

On the SQ, I selected IP21 (could have been any input, I know) and chose the Source Select as USB 21. Then, using the INSERT on IP21 (USB 21) I chose I/O Channel 4 as the Send and Return. Channel 4 is where my compressor is connected to.

Back in Studio One, I put the Pipeline XT plugin on my snare track (or vocals etc.) and select channel 21 as send and return. Pipeline will automatically adjust the phase based on the calculated latency, so that’s nice. Then I put a Tone Generator plugin before Pipeline and adjusted the input levels and output levels to be same (close enough), I had to use the Gain knob on the SQ-6 channel 21 to make sure it was not clipping, and also the gain on the compressor itself. So, once all gains / levels where set, I removed the tone generator and played my audio track ie: Snare, vocal etc. and low and behold, it was working !! I was able to compress the track with the hardware unit and it sounds great. I also put a stereo bus compressor on my main bus, and a pultec style EQ on another bus etc.. it all seems to work as long as I’m careful with the input and output levels.

The only thing I’m not sure about is the fact that I have to use up a USB channel (input and output) of my available 32s, and a channel on the SQ-6 to use the INSERT point for the MADI I/O channel where the hardware is connected.

Is that how it’s supposed to be done ? I mean, it does seem to work fine, but am I over complicating things ?

[RikerParticipant]

Hello again.
Well, ran into another routing issue. The problem I have now is this: In my DAW, which is Studio One 6, there is a plugin called Pipeline XT which allows you to send the audio from an audio track out to External analog hardware for processing and back in the DAW. For example, I am trying to use my Wes Audio Mimas compressor on a vocal track. Unfortunately, I can’t seem to get the audio to come out of the DAW, through my SQ-6 – out of MADI – to Ferrofish Pulse 16 – to Wes Audio Mimas in slot 8 and back into the DAW.

I did setup an Input and Output in Studio One for Pipeline just as the Youtube videos showed how to do that: I used Input 8 and Output 8. On the SQ-6 I went to I/O page, selected Local Input 8 and set it to MADI Input 8 (where my compressor is located) and then Outputs – IP Direct Output – MADI 8.

At first, the meters PEGGED so I turned down the preamp gain to minimum -24db (it was at Zero by default). I also did notice that when it was pegged, the compressor was doing some gain reduction.. probably a gain staging thing.. but I then dialed down the Input on the compressor, and the IP 8 gain on SQ to minimum and the meter went down to minimum / no signal as well.

So, I guess the connectivity is working if signal was actually flowing from the SQ to the compressor, I just don’t know how to properly route all that analog gear so that I can use it in Studio One to process my tracks, main bus etc..

I have not come across any video on the internet, or article for that matter, where someone is using an SQ mixer with the MADI I/O card to connect external hardware. The youtube examples are using a “standard” audio interface with Line Input and Line Outputs for the external hardware and it seems so simple, but my setup is a bit more complicated ie: Ferrofish, MADI, SQ-6 etc.

I would open a support ticket but… given the responses I got earlier when I first tried setting this up.. probably not going to be of much help.. I wish there was an actual telephone number I could call and have someone at A&H walk me through it.. probably take 5 minutes.. support ticket is days, and days of back and forth.

If anyone here has any suggestions that would be greatly appreciated !!!

Thank you !

[Author]

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