[GrahamFParticipant]

Brian,
Sorry I should have been thanking you, rather than Mike, for the video link. Some of my answers to Mike, should really have been to you, but its too late to edit them. It’s great to have a pastor who is also a musician. I was pleased to see him playing a jazz bass with my favourite sunburst colour scheme.

The GLD-80 does not have Dyn8, but it does have Dynamic EQ and Multi-band compressors. What settings are you using on Dyn8 to reduce the echo?

I thought you might be interested to watch a couple of videos that I have found from All Souls Langham Place. Being located in the centre of London, they are blessed with some superb musicians and an excellent production team. They manage to create a terrific vocal presence and sense of atmosphere. They are sometimes use a lot of reverb, but it is not obtrusive. I would love to know how they do it:

Thanks,

Graham

[GrahamFParticipant]

Mike,

Thanks for the advice. The backing track has a lot of in-built reverb, so I think having it so high in the mix made the reverb feel overdone. I can’t say I’m a great fan of backing tracks, but they do provide a foundation for a band that is less confident. The click track also has instructions vis in-ears like “go back to the chorus”, which is useful for both the band and the PowerPoint operator.

Did you feel the reverb was still overdone, when the backing track dropped low, or on the video with solo singer and pianist? I came home from one service and played it on my hi-fi and I was happy with the level of reverb. Then, I replayed it in the study on my Mac with cheap sound system and the reverb sounded excessive.

The video of your church was interesting. You are fortunate that your preacher is willing to use a lectern mic. Our service leaders prefer to use lavalier mics, which are a nightmare. They are omnidirectional and pick up noises from the back of church, lighting fans and church reverb. We have to EQ them to death to avoid feedback. I certainly don’t use reverb on those channels.

They also have unpleasant background hiss. I have tamed it to some extent by adjusting the transceiver sensitivity. I have set the noise gate to take out the hiss. Like you, I found that I had to be careful not to remove all of it, otherwise it was too obvious. I think I reduced the depth from -10dB to -20dB, which you may feel is still too harsh. I also played around with the release time, so that it did not cut off too suddenly and give the audience a shock. I have been quite cautious with the threshold, to avoid the risk of the speaker cutting out when he/she is speaking quietly.

Thanks,
Graham

[GrahamFParticipant]

Hi Mike,

Here are a couple of links. I have picked a song near the end of the first service. I was not on the desk and might have balanced the sound a bit differently, but it gives you a feel. They are using a backing track, which adds a level of confusion as to what you are actually listening to – e.g. there are some backing vocals and even bass guitar in the backing track. If I had been playing my bass, I would have turned the backing bass track off! In a couple of places, the backing track goes quiet and you can hear just guitar and piano:

https://youtu.be/Rr2uEBXW4hM?t=3846

This is just a solo vocalist with piano. Please don’t listen to the song before 45:50, as I accidentally left the service leader’s lavalier mic switched on. I was distracted by another problem, so I didn’t notice for an embarrassingly long time!

https://youtu.be/2rT0eVUqXpk?t=2750

Any comments welcomed,

Thanks,
Graham

[GrahamFParticipant]

Mike,

My apologies. I wrote a long thank you and reply. Then I edited it and it disappeared! I’m not sure what I did wrong. I have submitted a new reply to Brian and you.

Sometimes, I say delay, when I mean decay. I meant to say that the decay time on FX1 (FOH) reverb is 1.2s and on FX2 (FOH + stream) reverb is 3.6s.

Your advice on the delay time is nonetheless very welcome. As you have probably gathered, I am new to this game, so I am having to learn sensible values for a lot of settings that you would choose without thinking. I have been setting the Stereo Tap Delay for 1/8 or 1/4 note at 90 bpm. Most church songs seem to be at about 60-100 bpm. I guess that gives more of a delay effect, rather than vocal thickening?

Thanks again for being so helpful.
Graham

[GrahamFParticipant]

Hi Mike and Brian,
Thanks very much for your help. Those are very useful suggestions.

We are running the GLD-80 in a traditional stone built Anglican church building. It has quite a lot of natural reverb, which is partially deadened by a carpet. We are running front of house for people in the church itself, but due to COVID-19 restrictions nobody is allowed to attend at the moment. We are running a live stream for people to watch from home. In more normal times, we will run the FOH (LR) and AUX stream mix in parallel.

I am using each input channel’s standard EQ and compression functions. These are tailored, depending on the type of input. I send the vocals to FX1 for short reverb with a 1.2s decay time. The intention is that FX1 reverb comes and goes before the church reverb kicks in. FX2 provides a longer reverb with a 3.6s decay time for the stream, to add a sense of space that you naturally expect when watching video from a church building. I also add FX1 to the stream, as that seems to make vocals sound better. I have experimented a bit with delay to thicken the vocals, but that its not an established usage yet. I also use lighter touch compression on the output channels to glue the mix together and limit the output to the stream.

I like the idea of using a DCA to control all effects, as we have had some unfortunate accidents when an effect has been left too high in the mix at the end of the previous service and it was hard to find the source of the problem at the next service. Being able to kill all effects at the touch of a DCA button would come in very handy sometimes. I can’t find a way to gang FXs, so I guess DCAs are the only option.

I have not been using groups, but I would like to. The challenge is scrounging enough output mixes. My idea (please feel free to comment on it) is to use three groups – 1. Foundation (drums and bass guitar), 2. Instruments (acoustic guitars, cello, oboe…), and 3. Vocals.

I want to turn on the in-channel compressors for each group, so that I can glue each group together and moderate it. I want to balance the three groups against one another and hope that they will govern themselves to at least some extent. I also plan to insert Dynamic EQ into the vocal group, as I hope this will smooth off vocals and give them some more presence. I think other less qualified sound engineers may find it be easier to understand inserted effects than using send-return.

Thanks again for your help,

Graham

[GrahamFParticipant]

Thanks Steffen,

That’s really helpful input for me as well. Would you recommend Dante for this, rather than the Waves card. The Waves card seems to offer the possibility of adding extra sound effects, which could also be useful, but maybe it does not support the very flexible routing options that Dante does?

Thanks,

Graham

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