Windows Console Interface

[[XAP]BobParticipant]

Why would you need windows based remote control in a church setting.

Assuming the cost of “the other” mixer is less than £200 more than the QU then adding an iPad is easy in terms of budget.

I guess that the “other” mixer is a Berry X32, great mixer for church has the remote capability you are looking for.

The USB vs FireWire debate is as old as the hills, and with USB2 on the QU there is plenty of bandwidth (15% saturated?), so the buffers which exist at both ends should be fine.
Recording to QuDrive would be my church recommendation, and that doesn’t need a PC at all…

[Dick ReesParticipant]

G…

Well, it’s always nice to get more information regarding your concerns and issues in decision making, but it’s a bit discouraging to be informed of such issues AFTER addressing the initial question. How were we to know that it was a multi-user situation with budget limitations until now? This presents a whole ‘nother set of issues having less to do with the thread title than one would wish.

If it comes down to budget and having to utilize existing gear that’s another discussion. As to the Firewire/USB issues:

Firewire is history. There’s a reason why it has been dropped by manufacturers of audio and computers and relegated to the dustbin of history. I’ve owned and used Presonus stuff with Firewire and can express the result in one word: unreliable.

The Qu USB “just works” as the old saying goes.

Go ahead and do your best. It doesn’t matter to me what you buy and use. I’ve made my choice after going through the decision making process to have the most workable, reliable and dependable/robust system for the money having selected Qu for my business.

It’s a large part of how I make my living. For recreational and church use you probably can get along with less.

[DoctorGParticipant]

Bob and Dick, thanks for your contributions to this discussion. I do not have another specific mixer in mind, having looked at Presonus, Behringer, A&H, and the Soundcraft Si Expression, which is also a very capable digital mixer. Each has certain desirable features. Of these, I think I do prefer the A&H QU, but I’m one who likes to be sure all the options have been explored, so I present them for discussion. Reliability is a tough item to judge, as each person has a different experience, and each piece of equipment is different, statistically. In addition, these particular mixers have not been around that long. Your comments have been helpful, even if they do betray some level of bias. Clearly, you like this product, and that says something important. Thank you.

[[XAP]BobParticipant]

To give you some context….

I was one of the main decision makers for replacing our church desk about 6 years ago (after an incident with drinks) and we decided to remain analogue. 2-3 years ago we refurbished the building, and other factors (mainly the desire for a PA desk that could be put away to provide a multifunction room) meant that we went digital.
At the time we made the “right” decision for us, and got a Roland M300.
I don’t think I would make the same decision now – the world of digital mixers has moved on, and the price is too high, the only USP is the awesome remote control of the M48 personal monitors (ME-1 equivalent), but since those are ~£800 a pop it’s not a feature I’ve ever played with…

Another church I have a reasonable amount of contact with has recently (~1 year maybe) got a Behringer X32, and they are happy with that – fixed mix position, analogue multicore – it was a drop in replacement when their 25+ year old mixer died. They are still happy with it, and I’ve had a bit of a play on it – it’s not a bad board at all.

Buying for myself, I replaced a Behringer DDX3216 which I’d used for a number of years. I was running out of auxes and the entire rig was a bit heavy and cumbersome.

However cost was a serious factor. I’ve split the cost with a friend who runs a hire company. We split the revenue from hiring the desk, and have personal use free.
This meant that we spent a long while discussing what to get, and from which manufacturer. In the end the workflow of the desk, and reputation of the A&H brand won the day, and I don’t regret that decision at all.

If I was *just* buying for myself, then I’d be sorely tempted by the QuPac (I was sorely tempted by the X32 Rack last year), since I do almost all of my work from QuPad – as it is I am hoping that the QuPac will result in upgrades to QuPad in terms of FX and talkback control, but having the full control surface is essential from the hire half of the deal.

So….

Depending on your church scenario:
– Are you replacing a desk in place, retaining analogue multicore infrastructure to a fixed position?
– Are you refurbishing and looking to make the space more flexible?
– Are you running a team of dedicated and competent volunteers, or a paid tech director?

I’d suggest that remote control comes way down the list of requirements in most churches, and that most desks now provide “enough” remote control, even if it costs an extra £199 for the base model iPad.

Look for channel count, look at what style of worship you anticipate over then next 10-15 years, look at auxes – loops, foyer feeds, recording systems, monitor mixes, video feeds?

Look at digital multicore options, look at positioning in the building. Look at acoustic treatment and speakers/processors/amps…

[Dick ReesParticipant]

Of course we have a “bias”. We chose this product from among the others. FWIW, I own and use other consoles, both digital and analog so I have a personal frame of reference. As someone who has used such products for the last 50+ years I’ve seen things come and go. I used Presonus mixers for a few years but divested my stock due to reliability and customer support issues.

As I said before it makes no difference to me what you choose. But I expect any serious “discussion” to include all salient and applicable conditions in the first post, not to encounter them as piecemeal refutations of or objections to any replies to the initially presented scenario. Otherwise it becomes just another passive/aggressive internet forum exercise in trollery.

I do understand the church/HOW market, having done installs and training as a part of my business. I can truly state that IME the budgets involved typically expand to cover what is wanted but seldom to cover what’s actually needed. I hope you’re not stuck in that.

Good luck…but don’t hold your breath waiting for the marketplace offerings to dovetail with your personal ideas of right and wrong.

[Dick ReesParticipant]

PS

For your research purposes I would suggest you post your questions/concerns on any of the open sound forums such as Pro Sound Web (in the HOW/church section), Sound Forums.net or similar sites. You’ll have access to many, many more users in your situation.

[DoctorGParticipant]

Bob, thanks for your suggestions and guidance.

Dick, if you’ll go back through the first few exchanges, you’ll find that you were just as much to “blame” as I for for expanding the discussion to other conditions and factors. You stated that “I don’t understand why one would choose to spend significantly more money to purchase a digital console that would work with an existing computer..” I then responded to your statement. A discussion like this is not the place to put down or attack another individual for simply expressing an opinion. I am trying politely to bring this discussion to a close.

[[XAP]BobParticipant]

One other Roland feature I missed above….

Their digital snake (REAC) is L2 ethernet based – which means a dumb switch can be placed in the system, and you can plug into any of the ports without having to repatch anything else, this means we can have multiple mix positions available, just moving the desk in it’s flight case, not having to do anything in terms of patching anything else. I don’t think that is possible with dSnake (or other manufacturers???)

It’s nice, but not a killer – we could have managed with a short patch cable at the “storage” position of the desk…

[AndreasModerator]

…dSnake is as well L2 based, works perfectly with any switch… and using a managed switch with dedicated VLANs you can also run dSnake along with control ethernet through the same cable (placing WLAN router on stage, for example). There’s another thread on this topic…

[[XAP]BobParticipant]

Thank you, I thought I’d read something like that, but couldn’t find anything on the A&H site (didn’t try google though).

I even participated in said thread 🙂

Not a USP for The big R then… Still a nice feature to have, makes flexible installations really easy.

[Author]

Posts