DSnake & ipad on same network?

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This topic contains 21 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of [XAP]Bob [XAP]Bob 4 years, 3 months ago.

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  • #40643
    Profile photo of Yorkshire Pudding
    Yorkshire Pudding
    Participant

    Hi,
    Is there any reason why I shouldn’t attach both the DSnake & Ethernet connectors on the QU16 to an Ethernet switch, then run one CAT5E cable to the another switch with an AR2412 & Wi-Fi access point attached so that I can rack the WiFi AP that I use with the iPad and the AR2412 together – but still only need to run one cable?

    I know that the iPad remote is just using standard TCP/IPV4 – but what about the DSnake? can they co-exist on the same physical network?

    Thanks…

    #40665
    Profile photo of Yorkshire Pudding
    Yorkshire Pudding
    Participant

    According to:

    http://allen-heath.helpserve.com/Knowledgebase/Article/View/703/122/dsnake-can-i-run-dsnake-through-a-switch

    it looks like this is possible with switches that support tagged VLans (using a VLAN dedicated to DSnake & one for the network traffic)…

    Now to find some appropriate switches to test the theory….

    #40672
    Profile photo of GCumbee
    GCumbee
    Participant

    I don’t see that this would work. The two things work on different protocols. The DSnake is proprietary. It may work through a switch but not sure why you need it if the iPad router does not. The router has to be connected to the network port.

    #40694
    Profile photo of Yorkshire Pudding
    Yorkshire Pudding
    Participant

    According to the knowledgebase article DSnake uses Ethernet OSI layer 2, same as TCP/IP – it’s only at layer 3 the two diverge.
    (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSI_model for more on OSI layers).
    A tagged VLan is a way of running multiple virtual networks across the same physical cables/switches as if they were completely independent.
    So assuming a switch that supports tagged VLans on each end of the long Ethernet cable that runs from the front to back of the room ports 1 & 2 on each switch can be set to be completely independent networks – as if there were actually 2 wires running down the room.

    It’s essentially multiplexing a number of Ethernet connections…

    #44211
    Profile photo of Yorkshire Pudding
    Yorkshire Pudding
    Participant

    Ok – it’s been a while but I’ve eventually got round to testing this – and indeed it is possible to run both a data network (for iPAD control etc) and D-Snake down a single CAT5e or CAT6 cable between the stage and FOH position.

    You need 2 managed layer 2 switches that support V-LANS. I used two TP-Link TL-SG108E switches, but the 5 port version TL-SG105E would be fine and a bit cheaper (both are very good value). You also need a Windows PC connected to the switches so you can run their configuration software.

    I setup port 8 on both routers as vLAN #8 and used it for D-Snake.
    I setup port 7 on both routers as vLAN #7 and used it for data.
    (You can use any port for each of the two networks, and you can add more ports to the data network if required)
    Next: Setup the routers to limit connections on ports 8 & 7 to 100MB full duplex. And set the port based QOS (Quality of service) to give ports 1 & 8 maximum priority, port 7 low priority.

    Port 1 of both routers were connected a CAT5e cable
    On the FOH router I connected port 7 to the data network connection on my QU16 and port 8 to the D-Snake connector.
    On the stage router I connected port 7 to a WiFi router (that the iPad connects to) and port 8 to the AR2412

    The result – a rock solid audio connection (tested for quite a while without any glitches) and a good iPAD connection to the desk.

    You could also add any managed amps or speaker controllers in the stage rack to the data network, and add a PC/MAC to the data network at FOH to control them.

    If anyone would like more details on how to set this up please shout & I’ll add screenshots etc. from the router setup.

    #44228
    Profile photo of BLKGHOST
    BLKGHOST
    Participant

    Ok it works but I’m wondering why do you want to do it that way. I mean, a good router next to the mixer gets the job done and you still only have one cable to run to the stage and need less gears = less potential problems. The only advantage I see is more data connection if you need them on the stage.

    #44248
    Profile photo of Yorkshire Pudding
    Yorkshire Pudding
    Participant

    I agree that often just putting a router by the desk is the simplest & best option. But having the router at the front can sometimes be a better option, and in that case just running one cable is nice. Some examples:

    1) I recently did a corporate gig where the desk had to be in the projection room and I was using the iPAD to make changes in the room – In this case I wanted the router at the side of the stage on the top of the amps/radios/AR2412 rack.

    2) In a large room with a lot (or unknown amounts of) WiFi I’d rather have the router to the side of the stage than FOH for the same reason I put the radio receivers there – I want to be sure of a good signal on stage (where I need the iPad).

    3) If I have a rig where there are devices in the rack on stage that can be remote controlled over Ethernet. E.g. amps or radio receivers, I can wire those into the data network and connect a PC/mac at FOH to control them – while still only needing one cable between FOH and the stage.

    #44249
    Profile photo of Yorkshire Pudding
    Yorkshire Pudding
    Participant

    So – it’s really a case of knowing the options and picking the best one for a particular gig 🙂

    #44250
    Profile photo of [XAP]Bob
    [XAP]Bob
    Participant

    And if you leave a couple of switches set up in a bag with your kit then it’s not hard to slot them in when needed.

    #44348
    Profile photo of Andreas
    Andreas
    Moderator

    Have to admit I liked that idea, just changed my setup and it seems to work pretty robust (50m cable). I’ll keep the more complex setup and see how it operates in live situations.
    Thanks for pointing this out!

    #44351
    Profile photo of [XAP]Bob
    [XAP]Bob
    Participant

    One of the switches could even be the WAP so there is only the one extra switch to care about – you could even have two the same, have WiFi available at both locations 😉

    Fix the channels differently (and pref. non overlapping), use the same SSID and key and you’ll roam seamlessly between them.

    #44355
    Profile photo of Yorkshire Pudding
    Yorkshire Pudding
    Participant

    >> One of the switches could even be the WAP

    Unfortunately I don’t know of any managed layer 2 switches with built in WAP (Wi-Fi adapter) – all the wifi routers I’ve used work at a higher level…

    But if somebody does know of one then please let us know 🙂

    #44356
    Profile photo of Yorkshire Pudding
    Yorkshire Pudding
    Participant

    Andreas: glad I could help 🙂
    Please let us know how you get on with the setup. Though for the sake of paranoia I’d make sure I rigged it so it was easy to patch directly from the desk to the AR2412 if things all started going wrong at soundcheck!

    #44364
    Profile photo of Andreas
    Andreas
    Moderator

    Don’t hear about managed switches within a WAP either, and separating VLANs really is mandatory. Of course I’ll be prepared to switch back, I’m paranoid in a similar fashion… 😉

    #44365
    Profile photo of [XAP]Bob
    [XAP]Bob
    Participant

    Era, pepwave kit will do it, but they’re serious budget (more than a QU16!)

    I’ve not looked for vlanning waps – I have used pepwave kit (borrowed from work) though…

    Probably anything supporting dd-wrt would do the job.

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