Rookie QU16 Questions – vocal fx routing

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This topic contains 23 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of JimmyB JimmyB 4 months, 1 week ago.

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  • #44234
    Profile photo of Colonel Ted
    Colonel Ted
    Participant

    Our 5 piece band has invested in the QU16. Firmware is current as of Dec 31st 2014.

    We’re trying to get effects from the FX engines on each of our 4 vocal mics in Channels 1 thru 4 simultaneously, (basically some delay and reverb on all mics).

    We want the vocal output to be heard thru our monitors, (combo of stage plus IEMs) as well as obviously from the main L / R speakers.

    We are able to get 2 FX on any single mic channel, but not on all 4 mics simultaneously, (and then ultimately have the settings saved on a thumb drive).

    There has to be a simple way of accomplishing this.

    We’ve been thru Youtube and haven’t seen an explanation.

    Thx in advance for assistance.

    #44235
    Profile photo of Dick Rees
    Dick Rees
    Participant

    From page 44 of the manual:

     Mix>Return – Known as a ‘system effect’ this uses a bus to Send a mix of the channels to the effect, and a dedicated stereo FX Return channel to add the ‘wet’ effect to the ‘dry’ original sound. This is used for effects such as reverb and delay. Choose which mix bus to use as its input. For the Qu-16, FX1 and FX2 have dedicated buses. If you want to use FX3 or FX4 as another system effect you could patch one of the Mix1-10 buses as its input.

    Use sends on faders to route each of the 4 channels to FX 1/2 and do the same to regulate the desired amount of effect sent to the mains and/or monitor Mix buses.

    #44247
    Profile photo of cornelius78
    cornelius78
    Participant

    To expand on what Dick Rees said:

    Press the LR button on the RHS of the console, ensure your on the bottom layer (Ch1-16,) and ch1-4 faders are up and not muted in LR, and the LR master fader is turned up and also not muted (you should be hearing dry vox in FOH.)

    You have to get the channels to feed the FX sends, (which feed the FX processors.) This is just like getting a regular input channel into a mix.

    Press the “FX1” button on the RHS of the console. Faders 1-16 now represent the ch1-16s’ contribution to the FX1 send (which feeds fx processor1.)

    Push up faders for ch1-4. Ensure the master fader on the RHS of the console is up around unity (the FX1 send master, if it’s down at -inf you won’t hear anything.)

    Press the “FX2” button on the RHS of the console. Faders 1-16 now represent the ch1-16s’ contribution to the FX2 send (which feeds fx processor2.)

    Push up faders for ch1-4. Ensure the master fader on the RHS of the console is up around unity (the FX2 send master, if it’s down at -inf you won’t hear anything.)

    Now you’ve got your vox channels feeding the FX engines. Now you need to get the returns from those fx engines into the right mixes (like regular input channels.)

    Press the “LR” button the the RHS of the console. Go the the Top layer (St1 – Mix9-10 Master.) Faders #4 and #5 are the stereo returns from FX engines 1&2. Their levels indicate their contribution to the currently selected mix (LR.) Raise them to hear the FX in LR.

    Press the “Mix1” button on the RHS of the console. Faders #4 and #5 are the stereo returns from FX engines 1&2. Their levels indicate their contribution to the currently selected mix (Mix1.) Raise them to hear the FX in Mix1.

    Press the “Mix2” button on the RHS of the console. Faders #4 and #5 are the stereo returns from FX engines 1&2. Their levels indicate their contribution to the currently selected mix (Mix2.) Raise them to hear the FX in Mix2.

    A couple of gotchas:
    Ensure the FX processors are setup as Mix-Return, and the FX1 engine is being fed by the FX1 send (do the same for FX2.) Press the FX button next to the touchscreen, tap the relevant FX tab and go to Back Panel. I’m looking at GLD Editor ATM, but I’m pretty sure the process is the same for the Qu. The “Front Panel” button on the FX page is where you can configure the FX to be a reverb or a delay etc.

    The FX sends are fed post-fader from the input channels. If the channel 1-4 faders are down in LR, they won’t feed the FX engines. If you mute ch1-4, they’ll stop feeding the FX engines.

    Very few vocalists like delay on their own vocal in their monitors (especially those on ears,) but they do like a bit of verb. I wouldn’t be surprised if the band wanted less delay in the monitors. Still, horses for courses, give your band whatever they need to play well, if it is some delay in their monitors, then so be it. No one will care as long as they sound good.

    It may be worth using the custom layer and arranging the FX returns (or their sends, depending on how you like to mix) next to the vocal channels (or their DCA, if you’re using one of those,) to save you changing layers all the time.

    It might also be worth assigning one of the softkeys to a tap tempo for your delay FX. It may also be worth assigning the FX returns (and/or sends) to a mute group, (or DCA) and assigning control of the mutegroup to another softkey, that way you can mute the FX between songs with one button press.

    HTH

    #44259
    Profile photo of Colonel Ted
    Colonel Ted
    Participant

    This has been a great help. Thanks!

    Out of curiosity, what happens if I have 4 divas who all want slightly different fx on their FOH sound? Is that possible?

    #44260
    Profile photo of [XAP]Bob
    [XAP]Bob
    Participant

    You can insert each FX into their channel, but then you can’t separate the Wet and Dry sounds to give fold back a different mix.

    Actually, you could use Mix9/10 to act as “FX3” and “FX4” mixes (mix to return option on the FX unit. With a 5 piece band you probably don’t need that mix for monitoring.

    #44263
    Profile photo of cornelius78
    cornelius78
    Participant

    Expanding on what [XAP]Bob said:

    4 divas, 4 fx engines… should be possible. The caveat is that on the Qu16 only 2 of these FX engines have their own dedicated fx sends (FX1 and FX2. The Qu24 and Qu32 have 4x dedicated FX sends, but that’s a moot point here.)

    There are two saving graces: the first is that the other two fx engines (FX3 and FX4) can also set up as mix-return, if you feed them from other Mix1-10 (FX button next to touch screen, FX3, Back Panel to set this up.) Eg if you’ve got Mix7 spare, you can use it to feed FX3. Useful, providing you’ve got spare mixes that you aren’t using for monitors etc. Be on bottom layer, press Mix7, push up vocal channel fader for whichever vocalist is going to use that FX engine, press LR, change to top layer, push up the fader for FX3ret. Change to mixX for monitors, push up FXRet3 fader to get that verb in the relevant monitors.

    The second saving grace (if you don’t have enough spare mixes) is that the FX engines can also be configured to be fed from a single channel instead of a mix (channel-return on the “back panel” of the FX processor.) NB that using channel-return will feed the fx engine from whereever the direct out point is tapped. This can be moved from its default of post-preamp to post all, follow mute, follow fader, as though it was a regular post fade send, but the direct out point is global on all channels, and is also where your Qu-Drive and ME1 feeds are (potentially) derived from (if you’re using those.)

    The third option is to use the FX as inserts on each channel, but as [XAP]Bob said, once the FX is inserted you can’t really extract it, you get that same amount of verb on that channel in all your mixes, including LR. Using the mix-return or channel-return, you can dial the return in at different levels for different mixes. Sometimes you want FX inserted, other times you want a proper return for it, luckily the Qu16 can cater for both.

    Also, if you use all four FX engines for four different vox, (lets assume they’re all ‘verbs) that doesn’t leave you any space to put fx anywhere else: no vocal delay, no verb on a drum kit, no chorus on a guitar etc. Still, there’s no hard and fast rule that says “you always have to have a lead vox verb, backing vox verb, vox delay and snare verb.” Do whatever makes you band sound good.

    HTH

    #46929
    Profile photo of TobiVI
    TobiVI
    Participant

    I can see I am a bit late coming to this thread, but I, too, need 4 effect engines running in the QU-16.

    Great description above on how to get that accomplished! I did the same, only I am using MIX3 and MIX4 as the ‘sends’.

    My problem is, on any of the effect return mixes other than LR, the effected channel signals combine based on the 1-16 channel layer fader feed, not the actual monitor (MIX1, MIX2, etc) channel feeds. This means if I send all the vocals to, say, FX1 reverb on the 1-16 channel layer, then reduce 3 out of the 4 singers from, say, monitor 1 (MIX1) wedge but still want to send FX1 to MIX1, then MIX1 gets the full FX1 mix from all the singers. In other words, FX1 mix follows the 1-16 channel layer faders, not the MIX1 channel faders.

    If anyone has any ideas on how to make the FX mixes feeding the MIX1 through MIX9-10 mixes, I would appreciate it!

    Paul

    #46930
    Profile photo of [XAP]Bob
    [XAP]Bob
    Participant

    The FX engine takes what you give it.

    If that is a combination of all the vocalists then they will all be present in the fx return.

    Also check whether you are sending pre or post fade to teach mix. Fx are usually post fade, monitors are usually prefade

    #46932
    Profile photo of TobiVI
    TobiVI
    Participant

    Good points! Channel 1-16 FX1 and FX2 sends are Post, and Monitor (MIX1, MIX2) channel 1-16 sends are Pre.

    What I am hoping to find is a way to create a FX routing of the channel monitor sends (MIX1, MIX2) that follows the monitor faders and is independent of LR channel faders. Sort of like this:

    Ch1 LR post fader –> FX1 Send –> FX1 Return –> LR Out
    Ch1 MIX1 post fader –> FX2 Send –> FX2 Return –> MIX1 Out

    In the top example the FX channel content follows the LR fader. I would like to replicate this for monitors. I don’t think this is possible, but I thought I would ask the Community before I give up the ghost on this! 🙂

    #46934
    Profile photo of [XAP]Bob
    [XAP]Bob
    Participant

    Nope. Not an option, not until you start doing weird DCA things which aren’t what you want, or doing split feeds, and sending the monitor Chanel to the fx independently of the FOH FX

    But that’s outside the scope of most installations

    #46935
    Profile photo of TobiVI
    TobiVI
    Participant

    That’s what I used to do, ie. splits to a monitor board. Thought I might be able to do that internally with the digital routing.

    Thanks!

    #46936
    Profile photo of [XAP]Bob
    [XAP]Bob
    Participant

    Not without a stage is and a desk with enough spare channels.

    On the “monitor” fader simply don’t route it to FOH, and set the fx mix as postfAde with the send level at unity…

    But of a faff though.

    #46954
    Profile photo of audiokla
    audiokla
    Participant

    sorry, but am I right?
    If you add the fx to your e.g. IEM on mix1, the fx is with all instruments coming through mix1??
    There is no way to add fx e.g. only to the vocals on mix1 and use the same fx for the FOH-Mix (L-R)?

    #46959
    Profile photo of [XAP]Bob
    [XAP]Bob
    Participant

    The FX engines have limited compute capacity. They take one input and generate one output…

    Decide what you are routing *to* the FX unit (either a channel a group or a mix) and where you want to route the output (either back into the channel/group (as an insert, where it affects everything that channel/group does) or into an FX return – these appear as virtual channels in the second layer of the QU. [note that groups are not available on the QU16]

    Assuming you take it back to a return you can then route that return to each and any of the mixes available – so you can change the amount sent to FOH and all the mixes independently. The ‘normal’ way to route to an FX unit is to route ‘post fader’ and that means post fader on the FOH layer – therefore that level affects the input to (and output from) the FX unit – wherever that output is routed.

    I suggest looking at the system diagram in the manual, and studying, not just reading, the FX section of the manual.

    #66904
    Profile photo of JimmyB
    JimmyB
    Participant

    I followed Cornelius78s instructions. I still can’t get any fx in the monitors. When I switch between lr and mix one and and switch to the top layer on the faders the settings are identical.
    Fx1,Fx2 ret and send at0.
    I have fx on FOH lr.
    And help appreciated.
    Jim

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