Qu-24 electrical noises during streaming

[Giga]

Ah ! Hold your horses ! I was only talking about recording as that is how I (sometimes) use this. How are you picturing you want to use the QU + laptop rig ? Maybe I can imitate that to double check for you. I’d feel bad if were to buy another useless laptop….

Giga

[Crosan007]

My last post somehow didn’t actually get posted, so I’m posting again:

Hi All,
I’m encountering the same issue on a machine running Linux Mint 18.2 / Sonya (Kernel version 4.8.0-53-generic).
I’m using GStreamer to capture my QU-32’s USB-B streaming interface with the following command:

gst-launch-1.0 alsasrc name=audiosrc device=hw:CARD=QU32,DEV=0 !
audio/x-raw,channels=32,layout=interleaved,rate=48000 !
deinterleave name=d
interleave name=i
d.src_0 ! queue ! audioconvert ! i.sink_0
d.src_1 ! queue ! audioconvert ! i.sink_1
i. !
audio/x-raw,format=S16LE,channels=2,layout=interleaved,rate=48000 !
autoaudiosink

I get the same exact types of noises that others have shared.

I jotted down time stamps as the noises occur, and it appears that approximately 7 seconds of “distortion” occurs ever 1 minute 11 seconds. This timing is extremely reliable, and persists across reboots, number of channels streamed.

Additionally, I tested playback of audio using a similar command, and discovered that the same issue occurs with playback (this does require setting one or more channels to use the USB-Preamp)

gst-launch-1.0 audiotestsrc !
alsasink device=hw:CARD=QU32,DEV=0

Additionally, I’ve tried “disabling” xHCI in my UEFU with no success.
I’m using an Intel i7 4790-K CPU with 16 GB RAM and a 256 GB solid state.

My intent of using USB streaming is for live web streaming of our events using a software based video mixer. Currently I’m using unbalanced 3.5mm into the computer’s native sound card as a fall back, not my desired mode of capture.

I sent a tweet to A&H support, who have basically written me off since I’m using Linux (half expected that response), but it appears this issue transcends operating systems and is actually a hardware bug: https://twitter.com/allen_heath/status/953564268158488576

The related threads I’ve found reference the same thing:

• https://community.allen-heath.com/forums/topic/qu-32-usb-b-streaming-produce-robotic-noise
• https://community.allen-heath.com/forums/topic/random-electrical-noises-during-playback-studio-use
• https://community.allen-heath.com/forums/topic/interferance-on-usb3-connection
• https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/specification-updates/7-series-chipset-pch-spec-update.pdf
• https://community.allen-heath.com/forums/topic/qu-16-usb-recording-and-streaming-problem

At this point, since my intent is live streaming, I’m considering using an intermediate (non-Intel) USB capture device, and leveraging GStreamer’s TCP streaming capability to shuffle my tracks off to the mixer over Ethernet. I’ll report back if I have success with that.

[Frank]

Hi Giga, I did buy the Lenovo T410 and will try it by my own also. Everything, what I did read, looks, that it could work… and I need a second laptop to leave it in the session-room of the band… Greetings, Frank

[Crosan007]

I’ve just connected my QU-32 to a Raspberry Pi 3, and am happy to report that there are zero issues with USB audio streaming on this $35 device. Kind of amazing how a small bug from Intel can cripple an expensive workstation…

I’m a software engineer, and I have been learning a lot about the GStreamer application lately. I’ve built a make-shift network bridge for my QU-32 (via the Raspverry Pi 3) so I can use it on my Intel based workstation. I’m planning on refining this solution a little more so others can use it. It likely will not work in very low latency scenarios (and is not a true fix), but I’ll be willing to share what I develop to anyone interested.

My primary use case is live streaming a high quality multi-channel mix over various streaming services, so if anyone else is in the same scenario I’d love to chat – just ping me on twitter @crossan007

[Frank]

Hi Crosan007,

I am very interestet in the way, you solve it… but unfortunally I am not connectet with twitter. Would it be possible to explain in this forum, how you connect the Rasperry Pi3 with the A&H mixer and the Windows laptop DAW, perhaps in a way, not software engineers are able to understand? I am urologist;-) and handle with another “software” normaly :-))))), but I am able to do a lot of things with an PC, if anybody explains, what to do…

My main problem are distorsion, when playing music/records from the laptop to the mixer via USB-B. There is no difference, if using Cubase or the simple Windows-VLC-Player.

Thanks for help! And I will report, if the used older Lenovo Thinkpad T410 i7 8GB will work, which I did buy yesterday. It has USB 2 and 3 ports, so perhaps ikt will work with the USB 2 ports…

[Giga]

Hi Frank, I just confirmed that my T410 also plays back without one hickup. Hope yours does too !

Giga

[Crosan007]

Hi Frank,

I’d be glad to share here as well.

Currently my entire production workload is running purely on Linux, so I’ll have to do some research (which I may or may not get around to) in order to make things work on Windows. Additionally, my personal Windows & Intel DAW uses are limited, as my current primary focus is two channel live streaming (with as few DAC/ADCs as possible).

The bulk of my current platform is really just a bunch of GStreamer commands (known as pipelines) tied together: GStreamer allows you to write a few commands or text files that describe the way you want your streams to flow. GStreamer supports audio, video, subtitles, and event GPS timing data.

I’m running a GStreamer pipeline on my Raspberry Pi 3 that captures the raw audio from my QU-32’s USB output. The input format is a 32 channel interleaved audio stream (each channel in the board’s native output format).

From here, I’m using GStreamer on the RasPi to “deinterleave” the stream – so that I can access and manipulate each of the streams independently – specifically to resample and interleave the first two streams into a “Stereo” mix. This happens to be the “Mix 9-10” that I’ve mapped from my board’s System Utilities | USB Configuration. It’s this extracted stereo stream I’m pushing over the network into my video mixing system, which also has a few GStreamer pipelines running to patch in and create a composite view of the different camera angles in use. Each of my camera angles is actually just another RaspberryPi camera pushing H.264 frames over the network.

Now, back to (what is likely) the primary use case for the folks here: Use of a DAW on an affected Intel system without resorting to QU drive and manually shuffling files back an forth:

The real trick(s) here are going to be:

1) Finding / creating some piece of software that runs on Windows that is capable of emulating a sound card that will work with an off-the-shelf DAW. I’m considering solutions like JACK/ASIO, Virtual Audio Cable (VAC), or similar as discussed in this thread: https://superuser.com/questions/356536/virtual-audio-driver-for-windows

2) Creating a “connector” that can be easily installed on a RaspberryPi to automatically configure the appropriate pipelines from the mixer attached to the Pi’s USB into the affected Intel’s _virtual_ audio interface (by way of ethernet).

Ultimately my ideas are more of a “work around,” and not actually a solution. It’s likely that implementing this will not be an easy thing to do for those not used to working with various command line tools.

If / when I build more of a practical guide (rather than theory), I’ll share it.

Thanks,

[Anonymous]

Must check Gstreamer out to see if I can dump to SD/USB drive from the RasPi.

That would be nice – straight secondary recording…

[Crosan007]

Go for it Bob! The only thing that may be an issue is the speed of your SD card (or USB drive – probably a better idea) since there’s no artificial software limitation like there is on QU-Drive based recordings, you could potentially record all 32 tracks at the same time.

I’m not sure if the mixer firmware will allow QU-Drive and USB-B streaming to be used at the same time, but if so, this would be a good thing for you to look into!

You can follow steps 1,2, and 3 of the “Installation Instructions” on my GitHub project if your goal is simply “on-device” recording with a RaspberryPi: https://github.com/crossan007/PiCamFleetMapper

If you wanted to dump all 32 channels to a single, multi-channel wave file, you could run:

gst-launch-1.0 \
        alsasrc name=audiosrc device=hw:CARD=QU32,DEV=0 ! \
        audio/x-raw,channels=32,layout=interleaved,rate=48000 ! \
        filesink location=~/recording.wav

If you want to grab the first 2 channels from your device and store in a 2 channel wave, and re-sample:

gst-launch-1.0 \
        alsasrc name=audiosrc device=hw:CARD=QU32,DEV=0 ! \
        audio/x-raw,channels=32,layout=interleaved,rate=48000 ! \
        deinterleave name=d \
        interleave name=i  \
        d.src_0 ! queue ! audioconvert  ! i.sink_0 \
        d.src_1 ! queue ! audioconvert  ! i.sink_1 \
        i. ! \
        audio/x-raw,format=S16LE,channels=2,layout=interleaved,rate=44100 ! \
        filesink location=~/recording.wav

If you want the end file to be an MP3, just change the end of the pipeline (after the final capsfilter) to:

        audioconvert ! lamemp3enc ! filesink location=~/recording.mp3

Once you get the hang of sources (alsasrc), capability filters (audio/x-raw), plugins (interleave/deinterleavve), and sinks (filesink), GStreamer is a really simple, magical, powerful tool!

Elements and plugins: https://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/documentation/plugins.html

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the snippets!

USB B and QuDrive simultaneous recording is fine, it’s playback that is one or the other.

A USB drive is likely more reliable than the SD card, but I haven’t considered whether there is enough CPU to encode to FLAC on the fly…

[jakethepeg]

Do device manufacturers other than A&H have this electrical noise issue?

[Frank]

As I heard yes…

I am waiting on my “new” old Lenovo Thinkpad T410 (today I will get it, i hope). I did buy a used one at eBay. An i7 8GB RAM machine. I will install a new 500GB SSD instead of the 1 TB HD and make this laptop as an only-for-audio-recording-and-playback-DAW-machine. I hope with this configuration I will get a working solution, until INTEL and the others get a solution for their problem… hope dies last 😉

[Frank]

Does anybody have experiences with working laptops (the older ones with USB 2 ports) with WINDOWS 10? I did buy an used Lenovo Thinkpad T410 for my recording and playback, because this has only USB 2 ports and no USB 3 ports, but Giga tested it with Windows 7, but mine has windows 10 Pro. Anybody who knows if Win 10 is worse than Win 7 for DAW-tasks? If I would experience this before, I would try to install all components on Win 10, but if there are bad experiences with Win 10, I would restore the laptop at first to the origin Win 7 state and install Cubase and the ASIO-driver after this. I only want to safe time, if I would know, that Win 10 ist bad for this usage…

[Anonymous]

I have used a Dell XP L502X. Win 7. Standard laptop [i7 8 Gig Ram] “USB 3 SOCKET!” new about easily years maybe 6 years ago?
I was so excited… I thought yea this is the beginning of USB3 and had eagerly waited for the new revolution of USB3. Remember this was a long time ago now.
It was a laptop with out a VGA and also had Min DV so it really disappointing to me in a whole lot of different ways.
I had bought the laptop before the QU series had been released.

Using Reaper I streamed ‘in’ mostly 24 tracks at a time!
Those were early days where there was no Bi-Directional USB-B just one way into the QU of which I used and made my own templates for Reaper. Perfect never missed a beat.
I used the same laptop last year [September 2017] and streamed into Reaper 30 channels of data. Never missed a beat!
I wasn’t doing any over dubbing. Just recording up to about 2 hours at a time.

However there have been times where I have struck the robotic sound on my “old” iMacs streaming in 28-30 tracks.[USB 2] Back in a previous post I fixed that issue by NOT using any pluggins on recording to ease the processor of anything awry.
But I do have a feeling that tracks jumped [ and it always seamed to be between 9- track 12] and the robotic sound happened when I used the PFL within Reaper executed from the QU desk.

So maybe try win 7?

[Giga]

The general concenses, as far as I understand, is that W7 is still the most stable for DAW duties.
W10 is slowly catching up as more and more develloppers are getting the drift of W10.

For me, there’s absolutely no reason to make the switch.

@frank : new W7 licences are cheap these days

Giga

[Author]

Posts