Lack of combo xlr/jack sockets

Forums Forums SQ Forums SQ feature suggestions Lack of combo xlr/jack sockets

This topic contains 16 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Mike C Mike C 9 months, 3 weeks ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 17 total)
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  • #92243
    Profile photo of Nemydom
    Nemydom
    Participant

    Could some one explain the idea behind avoiding “combo xlr/jacks” on SQ? I do understand in the vast majority cases the SQ will be at FOH position with XLR patchbay and DI boxes on the stage… but I am sure A&H realises that lots of people will be using SQ on stage with wireless control etc (my case).. Also, studio use, with lots of equipment with unbalanced, jack only output (also my case)
    So, why A&H is doing that?
    Ok. Never mind. It’s their dessision, and I’ve already got my SQ. But what about the stage boxes? What A&H wants to acheive when they make a STAGE box without combo xlr/jacks? What about my 3 NORD keyboards, AKAI equipment, etc, etc. They all have unbalanced outputs. I would like to buy a DX box, but now I need to get extra DI boxes, or I need XLR to jacks cables, or other xlr to jack adaptors… no sence…
    I would prefer to buy a DX168 stage box with 16 combo xlr/jacks. If you make it, I am buing it next day….Please keep the same (or close) price, if possible.
    Many thanks 🙂

    #92244
    Profile photo of Mfk0815
    Mfk0815
    Participant

    Hmm, I am on the one side with you. XLR/Jack combo Sockets would be a benefit.
    But, when you ask about that, you also should ask pro equipment manufacturers like Clavia Nord or Akai why they do not give their products ballenced outputs preferred with XLR sockets? That would make live of sound engineers around the world so much easier since they do not always plug the keys, samplers and so on to DI boxes before they can be connected to the stage box. Unballanced outputs are for me a no go nowadays but keyboard manufacturer seems to live still in the 70s.

    #92245
    Profile photo of Nemydom
    Nemydom
    Participant

    Well, I am still using an unbalanced connection even for the keyboards, which have balanced jacks output (TRS) and support unbalanced connection from the same output. Examples would be Yamaha Montage and Roland Fantom G.
    I believe that we are talking from different points of view: Pro and semi-pro. I don’t think a semi-pro or hobbyist would be very happy if they forced to use balanced XLR/TRS at home.. The majority of them don’t even know what balanced connection is…. As a result we have tons of equipment with unbalanced TS outputs, or balanced, but supporting unbalanced cables. And this not gonna change, I think.
    Now, getting back to SQ. Is it designed as a 100% professional piece of equipment? I don’t think so. It’s not a D-live, or Avantis. Hence, I believe the request for combo XLR/Jacks, supporting an unbalanced connection is very reasonable, at least for the stage boxes.

    #92246
    Profile photo of MarkPAman
    MarkPAman
    Participant

    You could always use a Qu-SB as your stage box!

    ;D

    #92248
    Profile photo of SteffenR
    SteffenR
    Participant

    combo sockets are not that reliable as XLR only
    and you have to design a different circuit for the jack socket part of it at least to keep phantom power away

    #92250
    Profile photo of Mfk0815
    Mfk0815
    Participant

    @nemydom for me there are a lot of „I believe“ and not so much „I am sure“ in your arguments;-)
    For me the QU series is the one for semi-pro users. Starting with the SQ you come to the range of pro tools.
    Neverthelessa Nord keyboard is definitly a pro tool. And thats the reason why I do not understand why they do not equip these keyboards with balanced outputs, since they will be used for sure very often in a pro environment.
    Even Behringer build their keyboards with balanced outputs, so why is Nord not able to do that? Hmm.
    And at last, balanced inputs are common since the late 80s for moste of the pro or semi pro mixers. So the instrument manufacturer should leave the ancient era and should arrive the modern times. But maybe this is just a blue-eyed wish from my side.

    And Mark gave you a very good solution for your problem.

    #92253
    Profile photo of Nemydom
    Nemydom
    Participant

    Thanks Mark, but I am upgrading to SQ because of 96Khz – and there is no sense to move back to QU etc. Of cause I am aware of this opportunity and a couple more ‘works around’. At the stage, I will have to invest in some XLR male to TR/TRS (should be a significant investment, as I am trying to use Mogami Gold or similar) cables.. So maybe something like this as a temporary solution: D’Addario Male XLR male to balanced 1/4″ female adapter
    Thanks for your response, Stephen. Do you think the above-mentioned solutions cables/adapters will work in my situation? I mean, for thew both balanced and unbalanced connection if a combo socket works fine on other, cheaper digital mixers?
    Klaus, please ignore my “I believe“ etc.. It’s because of my not so good English. I would happily replace it with “I am sure” but it wouldn’t sound that polite in my opinion… A&H positioned the SQ as a semi-pro tool, not me. They mentioned many times in their videos that it is user-friendly for various users. Thanks for your response, anyway.

    #92254
    Profile photo of Andre S
    Andre S
    Participant

    Let´s not forget that unbalanced instrument cables can pick up a lot noise on their way to the stagebox/mixer.
    Plus there is a significant sound degredation the in long unbalanced cable runs.

    But that doesn´t mean that it wouldn´t sometimes be handy to have some more jackinputs. But as long as you have your D.I.box case with you, everything is fine

    #92255
    Profile photo of Nemydom
    Nemydom
    Participant

    Thanks Andre: there are no long runs in most of my cases. Midas Mr18 worked just fine. I want to be able to use all 16 locals plus two stereo pairs for the connection of different synths and other equipment. Anyway, lots of them are balanced, but they are not XLR, just TRS!

    #92277
    Profile photo of Mfk0815
    Mfk0815
    Participant

    Hmm, interesting approach, expensive keyboards, expensive mixer, expensive cable and cheap electrical connections. Problems will occure always on the weakest part of the chain, guess which will it be. Ok, it is not my party and therefore it is ok for me in the one or the other way.

    #92293
    Profile photo of Nemydom
    Nemydom
    Participant

    Klaus, thanks for your response. What would you use if it’s “your party”? Would you mind to share details of your setup? Also, I been told that the above mentioned D’Addario adapters are of the highest quality with ‘golden’ connectors etc.

    Still a couple of points need clarification or friendly advice:

    1)If I understand correctly, to connect Nord equipment (or other unbalanced equipment), a DI box would be the best choice. I would appreciate any recomendation on the DI box models, which will not affect the sound quality. Also, is there any other options, if you use SQ on stage/ at rehersal/in studio? I just realized, my drum module and Supernova II rack also have unbalanced connections.. so it’s gonna be too much unbalanced stuff. Thanks:)

    2)It’s still remains unclear, what is the “golden standard” to connect balanced TRS output of a keyboard/synh to the balanced XLR input on the SQ/stage box? There is no need of a DI box here, right? But it looks like some folks above do not support idea with trs/xlr adaptor as well as trs/xlr cable.. so I am totaly confused.

    Sorry guys for too many questions etc. I really need help, as for the last 15 years I have been using my analog consoles and Midas MR18 at a later stage, where TS/TRS inputs were freely available. Now my SQ is on the way, and I will be selling my MR18 to finance DI boxes, cables etc, whatever you guys recomend me 🙂
    …and again, it would be so nice to buy just one digital stage box where everything above mentioned already sorted (at 96kHz)! Still would love to hear A&H’s official opinion on that 🙂
    Many thanks

    #92294
    Profile photo of Mfk0815
    Mfk0815
    Participant

    I am using passive DI boxes for line level input signals. Palmer for instance build good devices for less money. PAN 01 for mono and PAN 04 for stereo inputs. There is also a rackmount PAN 16 for eight input signals. If you want to use higher quality stuff Radial engineering is something like industry standards. But avoid active DI boxes like the one from BSS, especially for the Nord. This can cause distortion because the Nord delivers high level signals, too high for some active DI boxes. Passive onesdo nothave this problem.
    TRS to XLR male cables are fine for balanced outputs. The SQ supports also line level signals on its input sockets, so these cables are ok as long as you do not have to deal with hum or noise from your inputs. Then you need either a DI box with ground lift or a isolation box, like the Radial IC-1.
    One big advantage for using symmetrical lines is that you do not worry with the length of the cables as long as you do not run 1000 meters or more;-)

    #94216
    Profile photo of nwegab
    nwegab
    Participant

    Hi,
    I understand, that AH can’t change TRS/XLR plugs on SQ, because it needs HW redesign.
    On the other hand, there are several use cases (Electronic music, rehearsal, etc.), where it could be useful.
    I have an idea about it.
    Is it possible (by firmware update) to make ST1 and ST2 configurable as four mono channels?

    BR, Gábor

    #94233
    Profile photo of SteffenR
    SteffenR
    Participant

    Is it possible (by firmware update) to make ST1 and ST2 configurable as four mono channels?

    I’m sorry… but now I have to say it

    read the manual first…

    it is easy to assign the sockets to different channels
    the sockets are independent from the mixing engine

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    #94235
    Profile photo of Mfk0815
    Mfk0815
    Participant

    Is it possible (by firmware update) to make ST1 and ST2 configurable as four mono channels?

    You can dothis since thevery beginning.

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