How do I use Groups on the QU-24

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This topic contains 15 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Mike C Mike C 1 year, 2 months ago.

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  • #52433
    Profile photo of MD
    MD
    Participant

    G’day all, I’m brand new to the digital mixer world, so please excuse my ignorance. Our local church just upgraded to the QU-24. We are loving the mixer especially the control you have through the iPad. I’ve been going through the manual and learning about the desk, so far so good. I’m having trouble with how to get the groups to work. All i want to do is set up a basic group for drums, singers and so on. On the old analogue desk I just panned L and R to get either group 1,2,3 or 4. For the life of me I can’t understand the manual in this regard. Can someone point out to me how do I setup the groups in this manner. Ta, MD

    #52436
    Profile photo of Wilts
    Wilts
    Participant

    Faced with a similar decision, I used DCAs instead. I put key elements onto individual DCAs and adjust the volume of them via DCAs. To make it easier to get to them, I made a custom layer with the DCAs replaced some of the generally unused channels on my QU32.

    #52439
    Profile photo of MD
    MD
    Participant

    Wilts, thanks for the reply. I’ll read up on DCA’s. Seems like a lot of mucking around to do something that’s so simple even on cheap old analogue mixers. Using the DCA’s, does that mean you don’t use the group mix buttons at all?
    Ta.

    #52440
    Profile photo of Dick Rees
    Dick Rees
    Participant

    The manual is not the clearest on this, but here goes:

    On the Qu-24 you have just two groups as such…but they are stereo groups. You can pan channels within the groups, but you will not have the same “four mono” control capability as you had in analog world.

    As has been pointed out you should use DCA’s for level control of your desired groupings. You will have four available, control for each by a single fader.

    The primary difference is that groups offer processing for all channels assigned to them while DCA’s control only the volume levels.

    To assign channels to a group you press the button for the desired group, then use the “assign” and “select” buttons to place channels in the group. Sounds more complicated than it is. Once you figure it out it takes no time at all to assign channels to either of your two (stereo) groups.

    So…

    DCA’s for simple level control and groups for dynamic processing/EQ’ing of multiple channels.

    Good luck.

    #52441
    Profile photo of Wilts
    Wilts
    Participant

    It depends upon what you want to do. If, like me, all you want to do is control the volume of the various “groupings” wrt each other, then DCAs are a lot easier to use. Think of the DCA as volume control which is applied equally to all the other levels in that DCA group. Say you have an acoustic guitar with a post fader level of -6dB, and an electric guitar with a post fader level of -8dB. You put them in a DCA group with its level set to say -3dB. Therefore, the acoustic guitar will end up with a level of -9dB and the electric at -11dB.

    The groups are different on the QU series. They act more like the Mix outputs (indeed the QU24 and 32 have dedicated group outputs) which can be routed to LR. If you are just using the group master to set the overall level, then you need to first set up the faders for all the channels you want to use on that group and then change the group master. There is a lot more chance of finger trouble. Other than this “flexibility”, the only advantage that groups give is that you can apply EQ/delays to each group. For just changing the balance of volumes, this is not needed.

    Assigning a channel to a DCA is no different to a group.

    Hope that helps. I was an analogue desk user until earlier this year having never used a digital desk before. Once I got my head around the basics, I was impressed how easy it is to use the QU series. Using an analogue desk now seems like the dark ages.

    If it helps, I produced some training videos for my team. They have proved to be remarkably popular given their dubious quality (I really should have written a script first). They can be found here

    #52443
    Profile photo of DoctorG
    DoctorG
    Participant

    What has been said previously should answer your questions. However, let me add my 2-cents’ worth, in which I probably repeat some of what has been said.

    The versatility of the QU32 really requires that you read the manual thoroughly.

    Sec 8.7 (Channel Routing) describes how to send one channel to the various mixes and audio groups. Mute and DCA groups are in sec 8.11.

    The groups do not have output jacks, but they can be assigned to Main and Matrix outs.
    For separate output of a group of channels, you must use the Mixes, which correspond to the Auxes on an analog desk.

    For groups and mixes, press the Mix/Group keys beside the Master channel fade strip.Then use the channel faders to set the send level from each channel to the Group or Mix. See Sec 6.3, which also describes how to use the Pre/Post and Assign keys to set up your mixes and groups.

    Yes, it’s at first a little different when moving from an analog mixer to a digital console, but the QU series has a good analog feel when in use. And let me ask you this – what analog mixer gives you 4-band fully parametric EQ, gate and compression, on all channels and outputs, plus a visual display of all these settings, a GEQ on all outputs, 4 sets of effects with a wide variety of settings, an RTA with signal generator, a visual audio spectrum display, and even an automatic mixer capability, plus multi-channel digital recording and playback? Most of these operations can also be controlled remotely with an iPad. To do what the QU24 does, you’d have to have an analog desk with at least 50 faders.

    This plethora of features (and I probably missed some) comes with a learning curve, but once you get used to it, you’ll never want to go back to your old analog box.

    For our small church, I was able to set up the Custom fader layer so that our operators can control all their inputs and monitors as well as 4 analog recording outputs using only the one level of faders. To them, it feels just like the old analog desk. Just be patient….

    #52446
    Profile photo of cornelius78
    cornelius78
    Participant

    The groups do not have output jacks,

    I disagree (see attachment.)

    If you want processing on a “group” of channels (eg you want to compress all the backing vox, or you want to add reverb to the whole drum kit, or you want a geq on all your lavs) then you need to use a group, as it actually provides an audio path and sums the channels, allowing the processing to be inserted on that signal. It also gives you some degree of level control using the group’s master fader.

    A DCA on the other hand is just a remote control for a group of faders (channels and/or mixes.) Although you can’t add processing to it, as it doesn’t actually provide an audio path, adjusting the DCA master will adjust the post fader sends from the channels assigned to that DCA. Eg assuming you’ve got your BV channels feeding a reverb FX, if you pull down the backing vox DCA master you’ll get less dry vox, and this will also affect the post fader send level too, meaning you’ll also get less reverb, which doesn’t happen if you’re just using groups.

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    #52460
    Profile photo of DoctorG
    DoctorG
    Participant

    Yes, the Groups do have output jacks! We don’t use these, and I was going from memory, which I find as I get older is not that dependable. Maybe I need to take my own advice and read the manual again!

    #52467
    Profile photo of MarkPAman
    MarkPAman
    Participant

    “the only advantage that groups give is that you can apply EQ/delays to each group. ”

    Not wanting to over complicate thins & derail the thread, but there are quite a lot of other uses for groups.

    As an example, if you set up your drums to both a group & a DCA, you can put compression on the group. Adjusting the DCA then becomes a “pre compressor volume, and the group level is a post compressor level. So with just 2 faders the amount of compression of the whole kit can be adjusted on the fly. It’s sort of like having the threshold & make-up gain on faders.

    Also, you can’t send a DCA group to a matrix…..

    #52468
    Profile photo of [XAP]Bob
    [XAP]Bob
    Participant

    You cants send a DCA to a matrix, but I assume you can send the individual channels?

    #52469
    Profile photo of MarkPAman
    MarkPAman
    Participant

    Don’t think so.

    I have met desks that allowed this, but it would be unusual.

    #52470
    Profile photo of [XAP]Bob
    [XAP]Bob
    Participant

    Ok – the Roland M300 (Which I use at church) does – and I only use a QU16, so don’t get nice toys 🙁

    #52474
    Profile photo of MD
    MD
    Participant

    Thanks guys for your responses. Don’t get me wrong, I’m already loving what the QU24 has to offer. Already way better than our old desk. The iPad control is so much fun. I’m looking forward to the learning journey. It’s good to know that I can put questions out there and get quick responses. Thanks to all.

    #89983
    Profile photo of Em
    Em
    Participant

    where is the master fader for DCA groups on QU-24?

    #89984
    Profile photo of volounteer
    volounteer
    Participant

    @Em

    Best to start a new thread with a new question.

    On the Qu32 the master fader is on the upper layer which is blue lights not yellow ones as the bottom layer.
    No idea what color the custom layer uses.

    I suspect yours is there too. Look at the manual for more info; and look at the board they should be labelled near the right of the faders.

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