gain gang

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This topic contains 18 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of SQuser SQuser 3 months, 3 weeks ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 19 total)
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  • #118838
    Profile photo of nottooloud
    nottooloud
    Participant

    Is there really no way to link gains when ganging? I want to use ganging so my stereo pairs are saved with the scene.

    #118845
    Profile photo of SQuser
    SQuser
    Participant

    No, this is not possible.
    But ganging isn’t specifically designed to create stereo pairs either.
    You probably know that you can always make two adjacent inputs stereo – 1/2 to 47/48 – and each with a common gain control.

    #118884
    Profile photo of nottooloud
    nottooloud
    Participant

    Linking persists across scenes, and requires loading a show to change it. No bueno. Why on earth would they exclude gain from ganging? @keithjah?

    #118899
    Profile photo of SQuser
    SQuser
    Participant

    At least one reason for this could be, that you could also gang the 6 channels of the line inputs ST1-3 as well as 2 USB channels.
    However, these have no “Gain” at all, only a “Trim”.
    In this respect the function would be inconsistent.

    #118920
    Profile photo of Brian
    Brian
    Participant

    I think it is fairly unusual that you would want to change stereo pairs to mono and back again on a per scene basis. Can you give some example of when you need to use this?

    I really don’t know if this will work, but one potential option is to double patch these inputs. Set one up as mono, and a second one as stereo. Then change the channel’s “source” from one to another in each scene as needed. A couple of disclosures – I haven’t tried using a particular source on both a stereo pair and a mono channel, but I think it would work and I’m assuming in the scene system you can change the input source on a channel on the SQ like you can on the Avantis and DLive, but haven’t used a SQ enough to know for sure off the top of my head.

    #118925
    Profile photo of SQuser
    SQuser
    Participant

    > Can you give some example of when you need to use this?
    Yes, an example could often be helpful for help.

    > I really don’t know if this will work, but one potential option is to double patch these inputs. Set one up as mono, and a second one as stereo.
    I don’t know if I understand you correctly:
    You want to use 3 channels, e.g. channel 1/2 as stereo in the first scene and channel 3, which is patched like 1, in the other scene?
    But what advantage would it have to sacrifice an additional channel instead of only using channel 1 in the second scene (in Stereo Mode L/L) and thus ignoring channel and input 2?

    #118932
    Profile photo of Brian
    Brian
    Participant

    I didn’t think about this yesterday, but does the SQ scene system allow you to change the “stereo image” setting of the channel (found in the preamp section)? If it does, this is clearly the more appropriate way to handle this. Set it to “Stereo” when needed or “mono” (or even L/L or R/R if appropriate) when needed, but in both cases the channel remain as a stereo linked pair. Making this change in a scene should not break audio like changing the stereo pairs does. Obviously you’ll need to use a scene filter with everything blocked except for the appropriate channel’s “preamp” settings being allowed.

    #118938
    Profile photo of SQuser
    SQuser
    Participant

    > does the SQ scene system allow you to change the “stereo image” setting of the channel (found in the preamp section)?
    Yes, you can use a Stereo Mode L/L to get the left channel only.

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    #118940
    Profile photo of nottooloud
    nottooloud
    Participant

    I think it is fairly unusual that you would want to change stereo pairs to mono and back again on a per scene basis. Can you give some example of when you need to use this?

    One band has stereo keys and the next band doesn’t? Doesn’t strike me as unusual.

    #118942
    Profile photo of SQuser
    SQuser
    Participant

    In this simple case you could implement it exactly as described last.
    There is a stereo channel 1/2 for the keyboards in both scenes.
    In the 1st scene, inputs 1 and 2 are used and in the 2nd scene only input 1.
    However, you don’t have to do without input 2, because you can also patch it to another channel while it is ignored in the stereo channel.

    #118945
    Profile photo of Brian
    Brian
    Participant

    One band has stereo keys and the next band doesn’t? Doesn’t strike me as unusual.

    It not unusual to have to change things between bands, but the system is designed to have each band set up as it’s own “show” and not just a scene. Setting it up like this means you have an entire setup with it’s own console structure and scenes/filters dedicated to a single band (or even a single show that a band performed). When you think of it in those terms, the system works as intended. That’s not to say that it is wrong to try to accomplish this through some of the suggested methods using scenes or double patching, but there is some logic in how A&H has designed this.

    Honestly the biggest reason why you don’t want to change the stereo linking of channels in a scene is because it breaks/stops the audio while the board reconfigures itself. This is fine if it happens in-between bands, but it isn’t something you want to have change in the middle of a show. This is why that setting is part of the show memory and not the scene memory.

    #118977
    Profile photo of nottooloud
    nottooloud
    Participant

    Here’s another case. All day festival that I do every year. 15 minute sets with 5 minute changeovers, and no soundchecks or advance tech info. I may not even know all the instrumentation until the band has started. I want a stereo channel. I can’t prebuild stereo and only use one side, because I can’t be sure where I’m going to need it. Maybe it’s keys stage right, maybe it’s guitar from the 4 or 5 DI lines downstage.

    I understand that there are ways to make stereo, but I haven’t heard any convincing argument for why gain *isn’t* in gang.

    #119005
    Profile photo of SQuser
    SQuser
    Participant

    Off topic:
    I replied again, but unfortunately my post has disappeared.
    I wanted to repeat it but only get:
    “ERROR: Duplicate reply detected; it looks as though you’ve already said that!”
    Seems to be a bug in this forum.
    Now I’m trying again.

    #119006
    Profile photo of SQuser
    SQuser
    Participant

    Off topic:
    Now I got 2 messages:
    “ERROR: Slow down; you move too fast.
    ERROR: Duplicate reply detected; it looks as though you’ve already said that!”
    I will try to move slower and change my answer a bit.

    #119007
    Profile photo of SQuser
    SQuser
    Participant

    The following is my disappeared text again:

    There is still a solution using a 3rd party app, but I’m afraid you will say, it has to be done in the console.
    But: GLD doesn’t have it, Avantis doesn’t have it, dLive (probably) doesn’t have it either.

    But of course you can still ask for it in the feature suggestion section.
    I wouldn’t mind this feature either and would support you!

    You asked: “Is there really no way to link gains when ganging?” but you don’t take no for an answer.
    We have suggested ways to get around the problem, but instead you want always to know just convincing arguments, why it is the way it is.

    And please forgive me the following, but given your example of the obviously misorganized festival, I first and foremost feel sorry for the audience, secondarily for the musicians and of course also the crew.
    With 15 minute sets without a soundchecks and advance tech info, you can’t expect a professional quality show.
    And you shouldn’t also support something like that, because otherwise organizers like this will keep trying, and that’s not good for the event industry.
    And regarding this case: If you don’t want to use stereo inputs and can’t operate 2 gain controls separately, then the stereo keyboard is only connected to mono – that’s it.
    I think, nobody will notice that at this festival.

    No offense …

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