Bridging GLD80s network over Waves V2 card

[mrsoundwizardParticipant]

Hi all,

So lately I’ve been trying integrate Waves into my setup with the Waves card and server. I’ve put the server into a rack along with a router and a mesh AP, in order to have a bigger network range (including an AP on stage, wired from FOH). All of this works as it supposed to, the only thing I don’t seem to get working is running the mixers ethernet port through the Waves card (for remote control and for snapshot linking in Superrack). It just doesn’t get recognised by my computer / router, not anything. Funny thing is that when I send both the Waves and GLD network out to a switch first, everything works and all connections work perfectly (this rules out any cable issue?). All hardware is running the latest FW, the GLD80 is on 1.62, the Waves V2 card boot: 1.12.2 program: 1.17.28, and control module version: 14.0.342.343

On the product announcement page (https://community.allen-heath.com/archives/42090) it’s advertised that bridging these connections over the card should work. I’ve contacted A&H, they reproduced my situation with their GLD (apparently still running in their office!) and strangely get this bridged setup to work. Quoting their response: “Waves is layer 2 so there are not IP addresses for the Waves card. Connecting the network of the console to the Waves card should allow traffic passthrough as the Waves card is just a small switch internally”.

I could just use the external switch workaround, though I prefer to work without a switch in the GLDs doghouse to simplify the setup and not rely on the switch. Also to be able to use just 1 cat5e cable with neutrik connectors which I can plug into the Waves card.

Does anyone have any experience on this subject? I’m adding a simple schematic of my setup for better understanding the issue.

Kind regards,
Simon

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[mfusaParticipant]

Hmm. Interesting deployment and one which I think I started out with years ago but was then told that Waves Soundgrid should really be on a totally isolated network. Since then I have a switch, connected to waves card, control PC, and two soundgrid servers just for Waves. Then, the remote control ethernet port for the GLD goes into a separate network.

Personally, I’d be a little concerned with this traffic running together on the same VLAN as potential for weird audio glitches. With that said, maybe it should/would work.

Couple things; I don’t think Soundgrid is only layer 2. In fact, if you follow the Windows OS optimization instructions for Waves Super Rack/SoundGrid, it tells you that the system uses TCPIPv6 (layer 3/4) and explicitly gives you instructions on disabling IPv4 (and other protocols) for best results.

Have you tried to statically assign an IP address on the GLD and see if that works? I wonder if somehow DHCP is not passing through when trying to bridge through the Waves Card? Not sure why but just a thought.

[mfusaParticipant]

Also, the GLD management port only supports IPv4 (to my knowledge) so some potential challenges there if mixing and trying to follow SuperRack best practices. I’ve never tried to link SuperRack itself to the GLD for the purposes of (snapshot) automation and integration; if you get it to work I would be interested to hear.

[mrsoundwizardParticipant]

Wow thank you for your comprehensive explanation!

Truth be told I don’t know too much about IT stuff like VLANs and ethernet layers and such, learning as a go and I get help from friends who know much more about this. So I trust you when you say the Waves setup should run on it’s own network. I just hoped I could run everything over 1 ethernet cable for efficiency in live scenarios. Where can I read about the info to disable IPv4 connections from Waves?

So I have had the whole system running as I wanted to, including the link to superrack for automation (very cool!). It required me to output both the Waves card network and the GLD network to a switch first, and from that switch into my rack including the server and routers. In this setup the connection between router and GLD gets established in either DHCP mode or via a static IP. The culprit is really the Waves card, which clearly does not (simply?) work as a switch. A&H HQ also advised me to do the same thing you suggested, to use a static IP but even in a simplified scenario, going from computer > waves card > gld network it doesn’t establish a connection p2p. When using a switch it works instantly.

The reason why I would like to have the GLDs network in the same network as Waves, is to use automation in Superrack and remote control the mixer over WIFI with an iPad at the same time. Worst case scenario I’d have to use the old skool MIDI ports for Superrack automation and the GLDs network port for remote control, which would suck. Do you have any ideas of what I could try or change to make it work?

[mrsoundwizardParticipant]

As for the GLD automation with superrack, it took me really long to figure out myself but turns out this is done really easy. Getting a solid connection to the mixer was the main issue :’)
Just download the MIDI control on A&Hs website, select MIDI thru and establish the connection with the mixer. Head over to Superrack and enable MIDI in from MIDI control, and set on which channel you’d like to receive the MIDI from your desk. Now your scenes from the GLD are automatically linked to Superrack with an offset of 1 (Waves start at 000 and GLD scenes start at 001). When you give your Superrack snapshot the corresponding number to link with a scene of the GLD, it loads the snapshot linked to the number of scene you recall on the GLD 🙂 ! Attached is a screenshot of how the Superrack settings should look like in order for it to work.

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[mfusaParticipant]

Here is the SoundGrid optimization for Windows. There may be one out there for MAC too (but I use Windows because of the MultiTouch touchscreen support).
https://www.waves.com/support/running-waves-soundgrid-on-pc-optimization-guidelines

However, if you follow this to the letter then you will disable IPv4 on the PC NIC which should prevent the A&H DAW control app from working so you’ll need to decide which, if any, of these steps you will follow.

I stumbled on this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5n3QJAnh2E) which, even though it’s for a more complicated setup with dLive, I think helps me understand how you did the control link for GLD. In this video he essentially bridges the control and soundgrid networks like you are trying to do (so maybe it’s ok in a production setup). I’d actually argue you could achieve both total soundgrid network isolation, and DAW control, but it would require an additional NIC in the Waves PC.

Essentially you’d have a NIC directly connected from the PC to the GLD network management port (or via a switch/router/AP) so you could use GLD Editor or DAW Control through that connection/IP address on the Waves PC.

Then you could have a totally isolated SoundGrid network (and follow all the optimization steps) by using another NIC connected only to the SoundGrid network. You should be able to eliminate any bridging between the SoundGrid and control network in this setup but I haven’t tested).

So you have to identify what’s most important to you. Do you want optimized and isolated networks or do you want the ability to connect with only one network cable? It’s up to you with what works best in your scenario. If you want to go back to the one-cable bridged setup then you’ll either need to figure out why (looping through the Waves card) doesn’t work or just plop a small switch behind the console and be done with it.

If you continue to want to troubleshoot the (looping through Waves card) then I’d get very pragmatic.
1) I would assign a static IP to the GLD
2) Connect a PC directly to the management port, and see if you can run a continuous ping to the GLD management IP address. If not, are you seeing link lights on either the GLD port or the PC port?
3) If 2 is working then keep the continuous ping going but plug the PC into a port on the Waves card and use a small cable to plug the other port from the waves card to the GLD management port. The ping should drop during the time where you are recabling but then pick back up. If not then where are you (and are you not) getting link lights in the setup (PC, two waves card ports, GLD management port).

Knowing where this falls down in the process might help troubleshoot it a bit more.

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