Add ability to recall Stereo Input/Mix and Mix Config in scenes

[AlecParticipant]

One of the most infuriating aspects of SQ’s scene handling is that Stereo Input/Mix and Mix Config are not stored in scenes. I get that this is done because changes to these settings require a reboot of the XCVI core which results in an interruption to audio, but the lack of recall on these settings frequently proves an issue – especially on a desk used by multiple engineers in a venue, which is common.

While wanting to avoid audio interruption mid show, I believe that most if not all changes to stereo/mixer config are done between sets to recall for band changeovers, or to recall “zero” settings for the mixer. For these scene recalls, I have no problem with interrupting audio. It’s daft to have to double-check the stereo settings after recalling a scene as you never know how they were left by the last user. These settings belong with the scene.

So, how to resolve this?

One option would be to have two Scene recall options, maybe “Go (gapless)” and “Go (full config)” with only the second one recalling stereo/mixer config.

Another would be to detect if there were any changes to stereo/mixer config in the new scene and prompt the user whether or not to load these on recall.

[EdoardoParticipant]

So, here is how I solve this issue.

In a venue where an SQ5 is the only house console and you need so many changes between inputs on stage it can be done in multiple ways.

One way is to have a matrix or some sort of system processor that handles audio coming from the console. This is very useful especially when running DJ nights or simple corporate events/guest consoles where you can just plug house music, DJ and house console into it, regulate the volume of all three and always have an active music in the background if you need to reboot or reload the XCVI core of the SQ.

If you need a lot of changes in the output setups of the desk that’s how I would go about it. Although having up to 12 stereo mixes I’d say you’re pretty safe from having to do lots of changes, 6 stereo mixes for IEMs and 6 mono wedges would be enough for almost all venues running an SQ5

If you don’t need to change your output setup but only stereo inputs then there’s multiple ways around it. One is to go GANG, and gang inputs making it much easier to have stereo pairs of whatever you’re using. Another option is to take some empty channels (if you’re running an SQ in a venue you’ll hardly go above the 32 channel count) and setup maybe 4 to 6 stereo channels at the end of the console. Then, when you’re soundchecking a band, you can patch your stereo inputs to those stereo channels, and setup a layer change for the scene. This will allow you to change to a different scene, recall a different input patch on the stereo faders and change the layer so that you’re ready to go for band 2. Having said all this, I feel like an external processor for your PA with your house music plugged into it would make much more sense if you want to be able to re-wire completely the console. Something like an A&H AHM16 would be great at this job, and you could go digital into it via Dante or Waves or an sLink card and allow you to never actually go analogue in between the two. I’ve done something like this for a venue’s setup where we had all DT168 boxes, and a switch sending our Dante 63-64 going to an AHM16 with a Dante card, and that was feeding the amps directly via Dante. House music was plugged into the AHM16 with a tablet and anywhere in the venue you could remote the tablet via custom control. It’s a great solution and it’s the way you should do it if you wanted to have the option of turning off the desk without losing music in between bands.

[Dave MeadowcroftParticipant]

As a sound engineer in a live venue I share your frustration with this. I was surprised when I first got the console that it worked this way.

In reality, it doesn’t actually cause a problem, for me at least. I wait for a brief gap between tracks in the background house music between sets and switch shows then – keeping my right hand ready to adjust the master. The drop in audio is only ever a fraction of a second and occasionally there us a very brief click, but nothing the audience would ever notice. I should add I have a channel dedicated to the house music in every show and always with identical settings, and the same PA / fills are used for every show.

For stereo inputs there is the stereo image control in the preamp settings where you can choose L/L for example to drive both sides of a common (to all shows maybe) stereo input from a single mono socket.

Unfortunately, there isn’t a similar stereo image function for outputs to sum a stereo bus to a single mono output socket. If there was then the limitation could be worked around, but I suppose that requires processing and the phase coherency considering too so not as simple as it sounds to implement.

[nottooloudParticipant]

I would love to not have to check if last night’s mix tech set anything stereo. Recall the house default scene and go to work.

[AlecParticipant]

Edoardo & Dave’s workarounds are still kludgy:

Ganging is nowhere near as neat as stereo linking for inputs – and also doesn’t fold the two inputs onto a single fader. And you can’t use an insert effect across ganged channels.

Surely, most people running a multi-band night use a scene per band, rather than a show per band? With SQ’s retarded limit of one show on board, and needing additional shows to be stored on USB drives, I’d never want to trust an external USB drive for a band changeover.

Dedicating certain channels to be stereo linked just doesn’t work in a busy venue with multiple engineers, let alone coping with visiting bands who will often just come with their own scene.

Nottooloud hits the nail on the head with just wanting to “Recall the house default scene and go to work” – exactly what I want.

While it’s frustrating that the architecture requires the reboot of the core, I can live with that. I’d far rather have the option of a full scene recall with a brief interruption, than to maintain audio at all costs, regardless of utility. My suggestions in the first post look like they could be workable, giving the best of both worlds, and surely not incredibly difficult to implement?

[AlecParticipant]

So, I bought this whole thing about mono/stereo assignments requiring changes to the XCVI core, interrupting audio.

I’ve recently done some testing of changing mono/stereo assignments with audio passing through the desk, and have *never* been able to discern any audible interruption to audio.

Come on A&H, it’s really time that you faced the challenge on issues like this, which make SQ so much more irritating to use as a house desk.

[KeithJ A&HModerator]

@alec

It does happen very quickly, especially compared with some of our other ranges where changing config is a very obvious 20-30 sec process, but there is an interruption to audio with the core reboot on SQ too.
There are other factors such as USB and digital connections which could be interrupted as well, so this is not something we would change for all users all the time.
However, we have been discussing methods of recalling scenes which could optionally include stereo assignments (not necessarily the full mixer config).
If this can be done in a way which doesn’t cause problems for user who absolutely require no audio interruption (e.g. theatre/broadcast) then of course it’s something we’ll attempt to get in.

In the meantime, if ganging doesn’t do it for you – note that the insert point is valid, as stereo imaging would be, but there is no need to have both L and R faders strips shown if everything is ganged, just put one (probably L) on the layer – then the best work around is to have a ‘pool’ of stereo channels which can be brought in and out of use as required per band/act.
Obviously it depends on channel count as to whether this is an option.

Thanks,
Keith.

[TobiParticipant]

Having a “Stereo Pool” is an interesting Idea… My Feeling is that would Work best of it would be possible to “free-patch” Stereo Channels 😉

[AlecParticipant]

Thanks Keith,
That’s the first response I’ve seen on this topic which seems to care about the need, and explain the subtleties between platforms. Makes sense that SQ is quicker than other platforms to reconfigure, but that A&H treat them all the same.

The stereo pool idea has some mileage, where the desk is for a single operator. But, in house usage, with a team of engineers, all with different workflows, it’s still subpar.

Don’t get me wrong. I love the stereo channels – both for inputs, where they save channel strips, and just work, and for outputs where stereo ears are required. It’s that they’re not in scenes – it’s less that I want them to come in when I recall a scene, but what I really don’t want is the left over assignments from the last person.

Great to hear that this is now being considered, rather than the original “it can’t be done” response. I won’t hold my breath, but this would resolve one of the gotchas that all of my team get bitten by from time to time on our SQ7.

[TetraSoundlabParticipant]

Yes, i don’t understand why the channels mono vs stereo settings are not recalled when loading a scene. Its really annoying, it creates confusion, even the M32 has that by default. Why wouldn’t you want that by default ?

[AlecParticipant]

@tetrasoundlab – I mentioned in my opening post why A&H choose not to store/recall stereo/mono settings in scenes.

It’s also explained on p57 of the SQ User Manual.

That doesn’t stop it being, as you say, both irritating and confusing. This thread was intended to explore the possibility of making this feature recallable in scenes, and has had some informative input, above, from Keith@A&H

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