ACE through a Switch

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This topic contains 19 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of ahjeff ahjeff 8 years, 9 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 20 total)
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  • #23615
    Profile photo of jeffs7
    jeffs7
    Participant

    Hi,

    I am having trouble getting ACE to run through a managed switch. Has anybody else been able to get this to work successfully? Did you have to do anything special?

    ~Jeff

    #33196
    Profile photo of Mr-B
    Mr-B
    Participant

    Does it have it’s own V-Lan? that should work,Don’t usually use ACE but from time to time I have and it works through the two level one switches I use as a fibre multicore. I use a couple of other V-LANs on the smae fibre for Dante control and WSM at the same time seems to work just fine.

    #33197
    Profile photo of 01soundman
    01soundman
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by jeffs7

    Hi,

    I am having trouble getting ACE to run through a managed switch. Has anybody else been able to get this to work successfully? Did you have to do anything special?

    ~Jeff


    You are running the ACE connection through one of the iLive network ports, yes?

    Just to be sure…
    Ray

    #33199
    Profile photo of woutert
    woutert
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by 01soundman

    You are running the ACE connection through one of the iLive network ports, yes?


    Ray,

    ACE = Audio and Control over Ethernet and only runs via… the ACE connections…

    The network ports only transport control traffic, no audio.

    Wouter
    IDR32, R72, Dante, Mixpad
    laptop, TP-Link TL-WR1043ND

    #33202
    Profile photo of pealsound
    pealsound
    Participant

    Hi Jeff

    What sort of problems are you having? I run ACE over a fibre optic link which works fine once it’s made the connection. I use Yellobrik OBD 1510 E which is a 4 port switch with 2 ports at either end of a 150m fibre link. I say “once it’s made the connection” because the big issue is failing to connect (T112 surface to IDR48 rack). I’ve had big problems getting it to actually make the connection… I often have the surface fail to connect to the mix rack or sometimes I get a “connected”, but with dodgy audio at the surface – clicks etc. Reseting network addresses sometimes sorts it out and once it connects ok, it works perfectly. I’m talking with my dealer and A&H to try to work out what’s going on, but I’d be very interested to hear what sort of problems you are experiencing.

    One interesting fact is that it always (100% never fails) connects over the Network link. Sadly, I need surface audio so I have to use ACE.

    IDR48 – T112 – Dante card

    #33203
    Profile photo of jeffs7
    jeffs7
    Participant

    To answer multiple posts at once:

    It is in its own vlan. In fact, it is the only thing on the switch at the moment.

    It is an ACE-to-ACE connection using the ACE ports.

    I have the same problem: the network-to-network connection never failes but the ACE always does over my Cisco switches. It sometimes says “mixrack connection lost” and other times it says “mixrack connection failed”. As an interesting test, I borrowed a HP Procurve switch from work and that functions just fine for ACE. I am now scratching my head.

    ~Jeff

    #33205
    Profile photo of tophfro
    tophfro
    Participant

    Hey jeff,
    What Cisco switch are you using and does it have the LAN Base or LAN Lite firmware loaded?

    Chris

    #33206
    Profile photo of tophfro
    tophfro
    Participant

    I did a little searching and found in the FAQ section of the Understanding ACE pdf this paragraph:

    quote:


    1. Some IEEE layer 3 & 4 protocols can interrupt ACE data or cause audible clicks. We recommend turning of layer 3 & 4 functions in a managed switch or use a
    layer 2 switch. The following protocols can interfere with ACE: Spanning Tree, Tagged egress packets, Broadcast storm protection. No other network devices can
    be plugged into a switch carrying ACE data unless a dedicated VLAN is set up exclusively for ACE.
    2. Suitable managed switches are: Netgear FSM726S, Level One GSW-0841 Web Smart switch (with fibre optic option).


    I have a netgear switch that I’ve played around with in the past sending ACE over it and had no issues. That wasn’t in a live setup but still, virtual sound check could be just as demanding on it.

    Make sure your Cisco doesn’t have some of these protocols enabled and try it again. Please share your findings.

    EDIT: Here’s the link to the ACE pdf: http://www.allen-heath.com/UK/CategoryDocuments/Understanding%20Ace%20-%20rev%2018dec12.pdf

    #33207
    Profile photo of jeffs7
    jeffs7
    Participant

    It is a Cisco 2960-24TT-L (the L indicates Lan Base). I am running version 15.0. Starting with the switch in the factory default state, I have disabled every recommended protocol and then some and it still will not connect. It seems like the switch just cannot keep up with the connection because it is reporting a lot of dropped frames on those interfaces.

    ~Jeff

    #33212
    Profile photo of tophfro
    tophfro
    Participant

    I’m sure you’ve checked this but are your cables ok? I have a friend with a spare 2960. I’ll try to pick it up this week and play around with it. I’m intrigued that my Netgear is able to handle it but the Cisco can’t. I’ll let you know what I find.

    #33214
    Profile photo of jeffs7
    jeffs7
    Participant

    Yep, I am sure the cables are not at fault. It works with the same cables for a direct connection.

    I was talking about this problem with my boss at work (IT department) and he was intrigued, so he let me take home one of their cheap managed HP ProCurve switches. It worked right out of the box! Now I am seriously pissed and confused by the Cisco.

    ~Jeff

    #33232
    Profile photo of tophfro
    tophfro
    Participant

    Hey Jeff,
    I tried out the ACE over a Cisco switch tonight. A new C2960S-24TD-L right out of the box… worked like a champ with no dropouts. I went thru later and configured it without the protocols as recommended in that ACE pdf i referenced before. No change, all still worked.

    Are you familiar with WireShark?
    Setup a mirrior port on the switch and have WireShark monitor the traffic. If nothing else perhaps the A&H
    engineers might be able to give you some insight as to what happening (or not happening).

    For completeness sake here’s my testing setup: I have a 3 MOTU 896HD Firewire I/O units hooked up to a mac mini with a 24 channel Multi-track session. I used this as a virtual sound check hooked up via analog out of the MOTU to my iDR32.
    – ACE connection over CAT 6 (250′ of it) to a T112 surface.
    – tannoy reveal 601a powered speakers (2x) connected to the TRS outputs on the surface.
    – Marantz 661 recorder hooked up to the SPDIF output on the surface configured for the mains to record the tested audio.

    After verifying that everything was working I inserted the new 2960 between the iDR32 and T112 using a new 15′ cat6 cable from the iDR32 to the 2960 and the same 250’cat6 from the switch to the T112. Once the surface connected to the MixRack everything went smoothly. I ran the test for 30 minutes in each setup. After I reconfigured the switch i only tested it for about 5 minutes since it was working ok.

    I know this doesn’t verify if individual channels drop out but I’m familiar with the source material enough that i would spot if something had dropped for any period of time. The switch did report a few dropped packets of the 30 minutes but it was on the order of 50 for the full 30 minutes. I did not inspect it to see if it might have been some “network” traffic or if it was audio.

    Hopefully this can be of some help to someone.

    #33234
    Profile photo of jeffs7
    jeffs7
    Participant

    Chris,

    Thanks for testing, but mine is not an “S” model. Just a regular C2960, so I am suspicious that could be the reason it worked for you and not me. If you wouldn’t mind, could you issue a “sh int” and “sh cont util” for me roughly 5 minutes after you start the iLive? (The counters are averaged over a 5 minute span).

    I have done just that with Wireshark and opened a support case with A&H and it seems like the switch is dropping frames. The “sh cont util” indicates the controllers are running at 100% for those ports, yet the traffic is well below the spec sheet both for total bandwidth and packets per second.

    I have contacted everybody I know: A&H, Cisco support forums, my boss at work, my company’s network consultant, and the Cisco Networking Academy at my local community college. Everybody is out of ideas.

    ~Jeff

    #33265
    Profile photo of dnxmirrorsounds
    dnxmirrorsounds
    Participant

    you have probably checked this already but the ports are not failing
    back to half duplex or something like that are they?

    Duncan Whitcombe
    @Dnxmirrorsounds
    Mirror Sounds & metrochurch
    Perth, Australia
    T112, iDR48x2
    http://www.mirrorsounds.com.au
    http://www.metrochurch.org.au

    #33281
    Profile photo of jeffs7
    jeffs7
    Participant

    Yep, sadly it is not that.

    I have been going through the troubleshooting process with Cisco. They seem to believe that the iLive is sending out traffic which occasionally tops 100mbps and the switch is dropping it during those periods. I am not sure if this is true, but I did take a capture with Wireshark and there does seem to be a regular pattern of spikes.

    [img]icon_paperclip.gif[/img] Download Photo/File: ACE_Mixrack_Direct.png
    12.42 KB

    ~Jeff

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