External Wordclocking?

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This topic contains 6 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of ddff_lv ddff_lv 6 years, 8 months ago.

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  • #41243
    Profile photo of Biggsounds
    Biggsounds
    Participant

    I heard an interesting experiment the other day on both an Avid S3L & Yamaha M7CL – A/Bing the consoles with and without an external Wordclock generator… the Avid it didn’t make a huge difference but with the M7, with it’s known issues with clocking, it was night and day. I was there supporting A&H and thought it would be worth knowing if the iLive would benefit from this, but it seems there’s no Wordclock interface on either the iDR racks or T series surfaces… any idea if it’s possible to sync to an external clock (wondering if the spdif inputs on the surface can be a clock source for example)?
    I have a Dante card fitted in the rack, I guess clocking from that is an option too (and it does anyway when I’m using the Dante card, I’d have to boot the system up to see if it clocks from Dante when it’s not actually being used)?
    Anyway, it was an interesting experiment, and made me think about carrying a clock for tours when I know I’ll come across a variety of consoles (last run was full of M7’s!)!

    #41246
    Profile photo of GCumbee
    GCumbee
    Participant

    My point on this subject has always been. Does it sound good to you now? Do you think anything is missing? I have argued the pros/cons of external clocks for years. Only in a few rare cases did I ever see one make a difference enough that about anyone could tell. It would have to be a double blind test to be sure.

    FTR. I have used M7’s without an external clock and was quite happy. I have seen some very good engineers use them and were likewise happy. Maybe we don’t know what we are missing. I do know I have used the GLD and QU and been extremely pleased. I can’t imagine how an external clock could make them sound any better.

    #41247
    Profile photo of Biggsounds
    Biggsounds
    Participant

    I have no issues with the sound of the iLive board, and as I said the Avid board it was hard to pick it, but seriously it was like 2 different consoles with the M7 (I’ve never liked the sound of that board, but everyone who came in and heard that test was floored, including some serious musicians and studio owners whose ears I trust as much as my own).
    It’s more an interest in trying it with the iLive, I don’t actually expect it to improve massively as I think it’s already a really great sounding console (the M7 is old technology, but it’s still what I see all over the place on tour!).

    #41248
    Profile photo of GCumbee
    GCumbee
    Participant

    I am certainly not doubting anyone but I have been a part of several comparison projects before as my studio in Nashville was used for the tests. I know how easy it is to fool people. We did them very scientifically since it was all going to be published and offered on CD to the public. Out mic pre tests and converter tests were done to 100th db minimums.

    I would have to hear it myself. I know many people who use Yamaha products of that vintage without external clocks who are quite happy. Maybe they don’t know what they are missing.

    #41280
    Profile photo of Stix
    Stix
    Participant

    @ GCumbee “Does it sound good to you now?” How is that relevant? The point of an A/B test is to hear if there are any IMPROVEMENTS to be made. My iLive T series mixers sound just fine – but when I use my Precision 8 mic pre’s in the studio (to line inputs on the iLive) there is a subtle improvement in detail and transient response. Using something and being happy with the sound is one thing … making it sound better is another and I have definitely heard improvements made with a clock change some years ago in the Studio (Aardvark Word Clock master). Heck – I used to be happy with an old Denon 3 head cassette deck …. knowing full well there was something missing!

    It’s interesting the M7 sounded better with an external clock (could it sound worse? LOL). I have also wondered if the iLive sound would change much with a different clock. Have not noticed any difference when Dante is clock master but then I have not done an A/B test either. With pro audio I think we always need to ask “Can it sound better?” because without that attitude – it likely won’t.

    #41281
    Profile photo of GCumbee
    GCumbee
    Participant

    I certainly didn’t mean to get into a pi$$ing match on here about this subject. Just offering my thoughts and impressions. I think it is relevant. My point was IF you are happy with something and you know what you are talking about in this business you should know what is good or bad right off the bat. In other words, I feel I have been doing this long enough that I know if A is not good without having to hear B. I deal with this everyday. I have to make decision on quality based on my own judgement without having to always do tests. I feel I can walk into a place and hear it and say yes or nay. I get hired a lot to make those judgements and try to improve on them if they need it. I don’t claim to be any golden ear or know it all expert. Just a lot of time put into it to know what I think or feel is good. I went to a funeral Sat at a church that had just installed an expensive sound system. When the persons on stage began to speak I about choked. It was awful. Horrible quality. I expected much better. I don’t know if the contractor left it that way or the operator just does not know what he is doing. I mentioned it to someone I knew late who went to church there. They were like ‘we just spent a ton on this’. My question was ‘are you happy with the way it sounds?” His answer was that he had not thought a lot about it. He just THOUGHT that was how it was supposed to sound. I was like ‘THERE YA GO’. They don’t know what is good or bad. They just look at what they paid for it.

    I have heard some crappy shows with very expensive consoles and speakers and have heard some really good shows with what I would call mediocre stuff. It is a lot about the operator and the sources. And yes I have heard some great sounding shows on M7’s. But as I said, I am very happy with the A&H line up. It pleases me.

    #41291
    Profile photo of ddff_lv
    ddff_lv
    Participant

    I think, I’ll do the experiment some day in September when all rush will be over. I’m kind of curious about it as I’ve been in M7 experiment and did hear the difference. I have a selection of clocks available and Joeco BBR Dante that will sync from wordclock and serve as Dante master clock. Will report how it went.

    ddff

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