Does the head amp have steps?

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This topic contains 11 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of SQuser SQuser 1 week, 2 days ago.

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  • #121043
    Profile photo of haru
    haru
    Participant

    Does the SQ-5’s Gain (head amp) have a number of steps? For example, Yamaha’s digital mixer has steps every 6dB, and the S/N changes.

    #121045
    Profile photo of KeithJ A&H
    KeithJ A&H
    Moderator

    @haru

    All A&H digital preamps are switchable in 1dB steps and the digital control changes the analogue gain of the preamp at every step.

    Thanks,
    Keith.

    #121065
    Profile photo of haru
    haru
    Participant

    thank you.
    Is it okay to recognize that the gain can be controlled linearly at 1db and the S/N ratio does not change from the minimum to the maximum?

    #121066
    Profile photo of Tobi
    Tobi
    Participant

    Hi Haru,
    My Feeling ist, you understand Something wrong about the Yamaha stuff… Or about General technical stuff.

    Best Regards,
    Tobias

    #121080
    Profile photo of Tobi
    Tobi
    Participant

    Hi Haru,
    me again. I checked on some Yamaha Mixers. I could not find a single device which only allows the preamps to be set in 6dB-Steps. Which mixer are you talking of? I also don’t know what you mean with “S/N changes”. Yes — if you increase gain, you will get more noise, even if that is normally only relevant on really hi gains. But that is physics and no mixing desk work different.

    Also — not talking against SQ — Yamaha is kind of top-of-industry. If you have the feeling, that those mixers produce lots of noise, there is something going wrong… maybe mixing desk damaged or operated in a wrong way.

    Best Regards,
    Tobias

    #121086
    Profile photo of haru
    haru
    Participant

    Hi tobi
    Thank you for your reply

    The Yamaha TF1 exhibits notable symptoms, but this is a characteristic of the head amp configuration in Yamaha’s digital mixers in general, which control Gain using a combination of two PAD values, two AMP values, and five ATT values.

    The PAD values are 0 and -24, the AMP values are 14 and 38, and the ATT values are 24, 18, 12, 6, 0. These combinations are used to control the Gain.

    Although the mixer allows for adjustments in 1dB increments, the noise floor increases with each 1dB gain increase. Every 6dB, the combination of PAD, AMP, and ATT changes internally, causing the noise floor to reset.

    I’m curious whether this variation in the S/N ratio could also occur in the SQ series.

    #121089
    Profile photo of Tobi
    Tobi
    Participant

    This Video Shows the gain Control in Yamaha tf. I do Not find any of what you say??

    And cl, DM and rivage do also Not have all the controls you naming. I am confused.

    Also i really dont know what you mean with your description of the noise. More gain means more noise. That ist physics. Yamaha Mixers do Not make Lots of more noise or less noise than Others.

    Best Regards,
    Tobias

    #121122
    Profile photo of SQuser
    SQuser
    Participant

    You can read about the principle of what Haru means in this document – especially from page 5:
    https://fr.yamaha.com/files/download/brochure/9/812849/Web_Sodru_PP_092015_YamahaTF_EN.pdf

    I don’t see any significant advantage in this type of gain control these days.
    But maybe I’m missing important things.
    Can you explain the advantages to us, haru?

    #121140
    Profile photo of haru
    haru
    Participant

    thank you
    This is exactly what I want to say.

    I don’t see any particular benefit to this mechanism.

    However, when using a YAMAHA mixer with this mechanism, for example, if the analog gain is 35 dB and the volume is just right, I adjust the analog gain from 36 dB to 38 bB and use the digital gain to lower the volume. .

    This is because the S/N ratio is better.

    I would like to know if these adjustments are necessary for Allen and Heath’s SQ series.

    #121161
    Profile photo of SQuser
    SQuser
    Participant

    Requiring at least 2 relays for the gain of each channel sounds somewhat antiquated.
    But perhaps this is a holy grail of being able to adjust the gain of analog preamps digitally.?
    In any case, the noise values do not seem to differ significantly from other consoles.
    Or do you see it differently?

    > I would like to know if these adjustments are necessary for Allen and Heath’s SQ series.
    Maybe I’m misunderstanding you, but I would say it’s not possible to implement it in SQ, because the preamp gain is controlled completely differently on the hardware side – also like KeithJ already answered.

    #121165
    Profile photo of haru
    haru
    Participant

    >>In any case, the noise values ​​do not seem to differ significantly from other consoles.
    Or do you see it differently?

    I feel that it won’t change much. However, when adjusting the TF1, etc., which I used as an example, I feel that it is better to go beyond the gain of the analog preamplifier by one step and adjust the digital gain to lower the floor noise relative to the signal.

    I find this setting method cumbersome.

    >>I would like to know if these adjustments are necessary for Allen and Heath’s SQ series.
    Maybe I’m misunderstanding you, but I would say it’s not possible to implement it in SQ, because the preamp gain is controlled completely differently on the hardware side – also like KeithJ already answered.

    thank you.
    Steps so far Consciously choose a YAMAHA mixer I was curious because I was using it.
    I was confident that I didn’t have to worry about it.

    #121167
    Profile photo of SQuser
    SQuser
    Participant

    > I feel that it is better to go beyond the gain of the analog preamplifier by one step and adjust the digital gain to lower the floor noise relative to the signal.
    And I think that if I amplify something analog and then reduce it digitally, it will reduce the noise of the preamp AND the signal to the same extent.
    The noise of the ADC should play no or only an imperceptible role here.

    > I find this setting method cumbersome.
    But you won’t notice anything of it.
    You change the gain like you would on any other desk and that’s it.

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