Losing connection with MixRack

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This topic contains 13 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of CMattE CMattE 10 years ago.

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  • #22745
    Profile photo of CMattE
    CMattE
    Participant

    Hello. We recently got a T112/48 setup (running version 1.80, didn’t want to update til after Easter) and so far it has been fantastic. However at the last two Easter practices the surface and mixrack has lost connection. When I first set it up, do to timing constraints I hadn’t ran the Cat5 cable through the ceiling. How it was ran wasn’t really an issue as no one normally is around it. But with the Easter drama people were walking around by it. I thought maybe it had been stepped on and damaged or something. So got a new cable and routed it through the ceiling out of the way. Last night everything was working perfectly. I was tweaking, saving adjustments, we were almost to the end and again the surface lost connection.

    I have a wi-fi router hooked up to the mixrack and my laptop for a backup. However I had the laptop hooked up to the surface at the time as I find somethings easier to do with the laptop. Anyways I turned on my wifi and tried to connect to the mixrack and it wouldn’t connect. In retrospect I think it was because I was trying to connect to mixrack + surface. Should I have just tried connecting to the mixrack? Or could it be my router causing issues? It’s a Linksys WRT150N.

    Because after re-booting the surface, and it working again, my laptop wouldn’t connect through wi-fi to the mixrack or Cat5 straight to the surface. That is until I manually set my IP address and connected straight to the surface. I had also disconnected the router by then just to make sure it wasn’t messing with things.

    What is my best plan of action to not lose control again? The Drama is multiple songs with people on multiple levels. Some songs to backing tracks, some with a live band. And some scenes are just action with a backing track and no mics open. So I have scenes set for each part. If I get stuck in a scene that is only the backing track I’m kinda up a creek without paddle. However as long as I can get connected and be able to select scenes everything should be pretty close. I’m open to suggestions.

    Now that I’m thinking about it I have a spare cat5 cable ran from the mixrack to the FOH. I am planning on using it for DANTE. Would running it from the mixrack to my laptop be the best plan? Seems as though it might be. But again. Any help is greatly appreciated.

    And if I haven’t mentioned it, the first performance is in about 9 hours. Thanks. :)

    T112/48, MacBook Pro, Mac Mini, and trying to patiently wait on Dante. ;)

    #28066
    Profile photo of Biggsounds
    Biggsounds
    Participant

    9 times out of 10 this is an IP address conflict – your surface and rack have static addresses, you need to make sure your routers address is different to these, and that if you use dchp or static addressing for your laptop and other wifi connected peripherals (like iPads, iPhones) that the range for dchp does not include the surface and rack addresses (I had a lot of conflict issues and drop outs until I worked that out!). I’m no network guru, but search previous posts and you’ll find all the specifics, or download the details from the iLive site.

    iDR32 mixrack
    MixRack for iPad & Tweak for iPhone apps
    Asus N61 Laptop (x2 wireless)
    Sennheiser IEM (for PFL)
    Dante card (soon!)

    #28067
    Profile photo of kentlowt
    kentlowt
    Participant

    Be sure and read the section of the manual on setting up ip addresses. If you get any conflicts this will happen. Most routers by default use the 192.168.1.1 address which happens to be the address the mix rack selects so you have to change one of the 2. Then make sure the router does not assign any addresses that conflict with any of the other ilive components. If you have a limited number of items connected you might be better setting up static ip addresses for each one.

    112T/IDR48/IDR16

    #28068
    Profile photo of CMattE
    CMattE
    Participant

    That is what is seems like. However I have the router set up to a static address of 192.168.1.11 and then set it to add devices in the 192.168.1.100 through 192.168.1.150 range using DHCP. I believe that is A&H’s recommendations. But this is an older router and I’m wondering if maybe something has changed. We do shut it off when we turn off the Mixrack.

    And to add to that I forgot to mention. I’m running a backing track through the surface and it keeps playing. So I’m not losing audio. Just the ability to control. Guess it could still be the cables I’ve used also. They were built by my cousin who is the head of IT at a local hospital and seem to be of good quaility. So maybe we’ll need to get some cables off the recommended suppliers. Just can’t do that by tonight. Anywho thanks and I’ll double check all my IP settings. See if something has changed.

    Right now I’m still thinking I’ll keep the router unhooked, and hook up the laptop direct to the mixrack and specify an IP address for it. See how that goes. Thanks again.

    T112/48, MacBook Pro, Mac Mini, and trying to patiently wait on Dante. ;)

    #28069
    Profile photo of RayS
    RayS
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by CMattE

    That is what is seems like. However I have the router set up to a static address of 192.168.1.11 and then set it to add devices in the 192.168.1.100 through 192.168.1.150 range using DHCP. I believe that is A&H’s recommendations. But this is an older router and I’m wondering if maybe something has changed. We do shut it off when we turn off the Mixrack.

    And to add to that I forgot to mention. I’m running a backing track through the surface and it keeps playing. So I’m not losing audio. Just the ability to control. Guess it could still be the cables I’ve used also. They were built by my cousin who is the head of IT at a local hospital and seem to be of good quaility. So maybe we’ll need to get some cables off the recommended suppliers. Just can’t do that by tonight. Anywho thanks and I’ll double check all my IP settings. See if something has changed.

    Right now I’m still thinking I’ll keep the router unhooked, and hook up the laptop direct to the mixrack and specify an IP address for it. See how that goes. Thanks again.

    T112/48, MacBook Pro, Mac Mini, and trying to patiently wait on Dante. ;)


    Several things here, first, don’t use the router just yet…….how long is the cat5?……

    Once you get the macbook/mini ip addresses sorted out make sure that airport is off !

    then setup a connection “surface to mixrack” with cat5 and “computer to mixrack” also with cat 5…… in the editor connect to “mixrack only” that way should you loose connection between mixrack and surface you’d still have control through the editor, of course if you have 2 comps you can connect an extra spare/backup to the surface also,(editor connected to “mixrack and surface”)…..personnally I always connect to the rack….that’s where all my audio is coming from……..so go for your idea of connecting editor to that “dante” cat5 and get yourself some recommended cables for ACE connections……I’ve successfully ran our own 300+ft of off the shelf cat5 to a monitor comp editor session that way connected to the mixrack…..

    Also if and when you have time, you might want to check the console logs to see why your surface lost connection. accessible through the surface

    hope this helps

    RayS

    R-72/iDR32/iPS10

    #28070
    Profile photo of CMattE
    CMattE
    Participant

    Thanks. The cables are 250′ but could be shortened for sure. I had him make them extra long, but they would still need to be about 200′. I will do that asap, unless I just order another. Which I probably will. My cousin tested them and they tested out to full Cat5e specs.

    Just to explain a little bit more. I normally run monitors (I normally play guitar also) from the stage via my MacBook wirelessly. That has been working great for the last month or so, with the occasion system busy. For Easter though I’m just running sound. For me it’s much easier to drag and drop channel strips, rename them, find mic channels being used via the editor software. So I’ve had it hooked up to the surface via Cat5 (with airport off) just for those purposes. And really now that I think about it that is when I’ve started having the issues. Maybe I shouldn’t connect the macbook at all?

    And as for the Mini, I haven’t even used it yet. I planned on it being the recording computer when our Dante card arrived. I may set it up though just to have a back up of a back up lol. ;)

    I will look at the logs asap and see what they say too. But I probably won’t be able to post them until this evening, after the service. And again thanks for everything. Especially the connecting to just the mixrack part. I thought I had read that if you were connecting to a system with a surface you had to tell it to connect to a “mixrack + surface”. However at this point all I should really need is ability to switch scenes and maybe some minor FOH volume changes.

    FWIW I also plan on completely rebooting the system about 5 mins before it starts. See if that helps. Our practices have been 3-4 hours and the actual service shouldn’t be over 2 hours. Thanks again.

    T112/48, MacBook Pro, Mac Mini, and trying to patiently wait on Dante. ;)

    #28071
    Profile photo of RayS
    RayS
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by CMattE

    Thanks. The cables are 250′ but could be shortened for sure. I had him make them extra long, but they would still need to be about 200′. I will do that asap, unless I just order another. Which I probably will. My cousin tested them and they tested out to full Cat5e specs.

    Just to explain a little bit more. I normally run monitors (I normally play guitar also) from the stage via my MacBook wirelessly. That has been working great for the last month or so, with the occasion system busy. For Easter though I’m just running sound. For me it’s much easier to drag and drop channel strips, rename them, find mic channels being used via the editor software. So I’ve had it hooked up to the surface via Cat5 (with airport off) just for those purposes. And really now that I think about it that is when I’ve started having the issues. Maybe I shouldn’t connect the macbook at all?

    And as for the Mini, I haven’t even used it yet. I planned on it being the recording computer when our Dante card arrived. I may set it up though just to have a back up of a back up lol. ;)

    I will look at the logs asap and see what they say too. But I probably won’t be able to post them until this evening, after the service. And again thanks for everything. Especially the connecting to just the mixrack part. I thought I had read that if you were connecting to a system with a surface you had to tell it to connect to a “mixrack + surface”. However at this point all I should really need is ability to switch scenes and maybe some minor FOH volume changes.

    FWIW I also plan on completely rebooting the system about 5 mins before it starts. See if that helps. Our practices have been 3-4 hours and the actual service shouldn’t be over 2 hours. Thanks again.

    T112/48, MacBook Pro, Mac Mini, and trying to patiently wait on Dante. ;)


    250ft! that could be a problem right there, at these lengths A&H recommends ” A&H tested” cables, although others may or may not work correctly or dependently ……if you search the discussions you will see references to other “adequate ” substitute cables. I strongly suggest A&H recommended cables though……

    You are right about A&H recommending an editor connection to “surface and mixrack” when both are present but, more and more frequently a “mixrack only” connection while surface is also present seems a more logical step, so I think this is now the recommended practice……I just ended a 3 month tour with 3 macbook pros 1 pc and a surface all connected at the same time as well as a router and never had problems with lost connection from the surface to the mixrack…..Other than the possible ip address issues suggested I can’t think what could cause the MBP’s cat 5 to affect the surface ‘s connection…..unless of course they both had the same ip other than the cable itself…..and, since you have successfully connected in wi fi before, I would recommend looking at what has changed since the last stable all around connection……

    RayS

    R-72/iDR32/iPS10

    #28072
    Profile photo of CMattE
    CMattE
    Participant

    It did it again. With about 15 mins left in the service. It did it at almost the same exact spot as last time to. So I’m wondering if it is something in the scene. Luckily Pastor was planning on preaching one scene later so we made it work. However I couldn’t connect my Macbook at all this time. I had left it completely unhooked just to be safe and try to not have anything extra causing ip problems and when it went down I hooked up the back up cable and it wouldn’t connect. I tried DHCP and manual connection. With the DHCP it was giving it a really weird IP address. Just tried again. It was 169.254.138.222.

    I didn’t have the router hooked up so I couldn’t even try to hook up via the wi-fi. When it rebooted I noticed the status screen is showing a red x by the firmware version 1.80. Could it be a firmware issue?

    And lastly at the bottom of the touch screen there is a yellow caution triangle in some scenes???

    Okay thanks in advance for any help/suggestions.

    Matt

    T112/48, MacBook Pro, Mac Mini, and trying to patiently wait on Dante. ;)

    #28073
    Profile photo of CMattE
    CMattE
    Participant

    K. Started trouble shooting. It’s whenever I recall a certain scene it drops connection. Gonna delete and recreate that scene. It’s a fairly simple scene. Let me see what happens.

    T112/48, MacBook Pro, Mac Mini, and trying to patiently wait on Dante. ;)

    #28074
    Profile photo of CMattE
    CMattE
    Participant

    Pretty much confirmed it. It is that scene. Number 24. TheCross(scene). I know that doesn’t mean anything to anyone else. But that is the scene. I even completely deleted it. Copied from another scene that is similar. (just a VO/action track) renamed and pasted it to spot 24. It would still disconnect. For now I’m just gonna totally skip that scene.

    If anyone has experienced something similar let me know. Thanks.

    T112/48, MacBook Pro, Mac Mini, and trying to patiently wait on Dante. ;)

    #28077
    Profile photo of RayS
    RayS
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by CMattE

    It did it again. With about 15 mins left in the service. It did it at almost the same exact spot as last time to. So I’m wondering if it is something in the scene. Luckily Pastor was planning on preaching one scene later so we made it work. However I couldn’t connect my Macbook at all this time. I had left it completely unhooked just to be safe and try to not have anything extra causing ip problems and when it went down I hooked up the back up cable and it wouldn’t connect. I tried DHCP and manual connection. With the DHCP it was giving it a really weird IP address. Just tried again. It was 169.254.138.222.

    I didn’t have the router hooked up so I couldn’t even try to hook up via the wi-fi. When it rebooted I noticed the status screen is showing a red x by the firmware version 1.80. Could it be a firmware issue?

    And lastly at the bottom of the touch screen there is a yellow caution triangle in some scenes???

    Okay thanks in advance for any help/suggestions.

    Matt

    T112/48, MacBook Pro, Mac Mini, and trying to patiently wait on Dante. ;)


    Matt, Happy Easter, sorry to hear you are still having probs……

    First, the more obvious stuff, the mackbook should have been connected before possible problems, that’s the only way you might rely on it as a”back-up” otherwise, as you found out , it’s pretty much useless……so, both surface and macbook connected at all times……
    click on yellow triangle it will show you the logs,,,,…Firmware Displays the current firmware version loaded. A green tick means the system firmware is operating correctly. A red cross warns that an error has been detected and has been logged in the system Event Logs. A yellow triangle also displays in the lower toolbar to alert you if you are in another page or displays when a system error has been detected.. Go to the UTILITY /Diagnostics / Event Logs page to view the error. The Event Log can be copied to USB key to be reported to Allen & Heath if required. After viewing the error log the green tick is restored.

    When selecting the “dhcp with manual address” you select the appropriate ip 192.168.1.xxx regardless of what’s been assigned automatically to/by your mac……also be aware when attempting to connect for the first time ( with a new ip ), the system needs some time to locate the mixrack..so a little patience here…..

    Short of updating all components of the system to 1.81 I can only suggest the following troubleshooting: after looking at your log files (the event is recorded there) either take the rack or the surface (whatever is easiest) so you can use them with A&H supplied 2m. ACE cable,+ macbook pro connected too to mixrack only……. try to run through your scenes that way and check for the yellow triangle just to make sure what is going on there…..this will eliminate the long cat5e out of this equation once and for all……

    Hope all this helps

    P.S. there seems to be some issues with V.1.80 as mentioned in this discussion thread: http://www.allen-heath.com/iliveforum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1507 so again should be prudent to update to 1.81 as soon as possible……

    RayS

    R-72/iDR32/iPS10

    #28081
    Profile photo of CMattE
    CMattE
    Participant

    Thanks again. As I mentioned earlier. I have narrowed it to a specific scene. I have no clue why recalling a scene, that was previously working fine, would do this but that is what it is. Gonna copy those logs. This morning went great. Just avoided that one scene like the plague lol. After tonight’s service I’ll update to 1.81. Again thanks for the help and ear to listen (eyes to read???) lol.

    T112/48, MacBook Pro, Mac Mini, and trying to patiently wait on Dante. ;)

    #28085
    Profile photo of CMattE
    CMattE
    Participant

    Looks like 1.81 fixed it. Had some issues getting to update to 1.81 but got there. The first USB stick I brought last night didn’t work with it. This morning I brought 3 more and the next one I tried showed up. Woohoo!!! Then I couldn’t archive a show without it disconnecting. Btw this is with only the t112 and idr48 hooked up with the cable a&h sends and nothing else. Tried to delete the problem scene and that would disconnect it without deleting it. Then hooked up my laptop and tried to save. Disconnect. Next I went with just the mixrack and laptop. Finally I got it to save the show through the editor. Yay!!! The update to 1.81 was a breeze. Like a minute or two and it was done. Updated my laptop to 1.81. Hooked up to the rig and looked for the archived show. It wasn’t there!?!?! Luckily I hadn’t deleted version 1.80 of the editor yet. Opened it up and there it was. Don’t know if there is something I needed to do to get 1.81 to find it but this worked. Saved the show and scenes to the ilive. Everything seems to be okay again. Thanks for everything. :)

    T112/48, MacBook Pro, Mac Mini, and trying to patiently wait on Dante. ;)

    #28082
    Profile photo of sraymond
    sraymond
    Participant

    Matt,

    The 169.254.x.x address is an automatic private address. I’ve run across it when working with my Ubox in the past. Do a search using “ip 169.254.x.x” and you’ll get some results for both Windows and Airport. It’s related to not being able to find the DCHP server. Whether or not it’s related to 1.80 may be hard to figure. If 1.81 fixes everything and it stays fixed maybe that was it.

    Scott

    P.S. Got through Easter service OK on 1.80 on the Tablet without bugs other than a little extra monitor volume when Our Pastor came up after Praise and Worship. Sharing a wireless channel isn’t something I like to do normally, but it went fine other than me not getting to the mute on the handheld channel in time. I need to do my 1.81 upgrade now as well.

    quote:


    Originally posted by CMattE
    [ With the DHCP it was giving it a really weird IP address. Just tried again. It was 169.254.138.222.


    iDR 32
    iDR D-Out
    MMO
    Lenova T61, M90, iPad soon I hope.

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