Digital noise on iDR48 Preamps

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This topic contains 15 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Studio-Strada-Recording Studio-Strada-Recording 10 years, 12 months ago.

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  • #22346

    Hi. Today I’m experimenting with this new (for me) consolle.
    Signal path is easy: out from Nuendo, into Apogee DA, into the IDR48.
    Then I process the sound, and then it goes into my Genelec system (2×1032+sub7070A). 16 tracks out, normal rock music (drum, bss, gtr, vox.
    All good, is difficult to make sound bad the A&H system. But…
    …when I go over 35dB, an horrible digital noise (just like the quantize noise)came out from the P.A.
    Maybe some cable or other? I unpathched all XLR’S from IDR. Still the noise out, measurable into the meter, on the strip, everywhere.
    Is it normal to your experience, or is just my system?
    Thanks everyone here.

    P.S. Suggestion for new firmware: a clear MIX button

    iLive T112 – IDR48

    #25603
    Profile photo of selfmade
    selfmade
    Participant

    do you have the problem, when you switch the PAD button of the preamp?

    greetings from hamburg

    #25607

    Hi, and greetings from Matera.
    No, no matters on the channel where the pad is on. just where there’s no pad, and gain over 35 db.

    iLive T112 – IDR48

    #25611
    Profile photo of Stealth
    Stealth
    Moderator

    Hi Angelo

    If the digital noise is only there when you input a line level signal with the pad off and 35db of gain this does not surpise me at all you will be overloadin the preamp with to much signal, if you are inputting a line level signal the pad should be ON.

    I am more concerned when you say that if you remove all of the XLR inputs to the mixrack the noise still remains. it sounds like you have some kind of feedback loop. Please check all of your routing to see if this is the issue. An easy way to reset this would be to load a template show.

    If the problem remains please explain in more detail exactly what you setup is.

    Let me know how yo get on

    Regards
    Sam A&H

    #25612

    Hi, thanx for reply.
    So, with all unpatched (only main), I recalled the template FOH-LRStereo, and then the scene “112”. Assigned main to the outputs, and raised gain on IP1. At 35db the noise became udible (both into headphones and to the PA, where before assigning main there was nothing). At 65, (un)naturally, it’s overload, and a great noise appear, IDR apparently unusable.
    This said, another thing: when I move the gain pot on the strip, I hear, both in headphones and in the PA, some “thicks” from going to one level to another. And the same is if, on the channel IP1, I push and unpush the PAD button: another great thick, and the same noise, not lower noise (I supposed it would go down 25 db…)[?]
    I know, I’m using the consolle on a studio set-up, where everything is audible (and, sometimes, horrible). You at A&H did this experiment?
    Thanx again,
    Angelo Cannarile

    iLive T112 -FW 1.63 – IDR48

    #25616
    Profile photo of Stealth
    Stealth
    Moderator

    Hi Angelo

    I am unsure of this noise you talk of. Is this residual noise of the preamp circuit at high gain, or a seperate artifact in the signal chain?

    I advise you contact A&H technical Support. They will be able to help you resolve your issue.

    Please include a detailed description of your problem with Audio examples if possible.

    http://allen-heath.helpserve.com/

    The clicks that you are hearing are normal operation of the desk. As iLive is a digital console the gain is digitally controlled. As you move the gain pot the gain is increased in 1dB steps this is the increase you are hearing. At low gain the clicks will not be so apparent, as the gain increases so does the noise floor of the system this is why the clicks become more audible.

    Hope this helps
    Sam A&H

    #25679

    Hi. I did as you suggested: recorded the noise, and gave it to A&H help. A very fast answer remembered me that the noise was just gain noise, preamplified by another mixer, on which one I patched L/R to learn using t112…ehehe, so busy to study, I forgot the basics!uhauhauh
    Ok, just yesterday I used the system for a live show (28 channels, about), a folk show, with a lot of folks guitars.
    Generally, when I mixed this kind of show, even with Soundcraft MH3/4 or A&H ML4/5000, or so on, with a ton of outboards dynamics and FXs, the results is always a “coalition-of-bad-medium-frequencies”, because of the arrangements, too…but this time, the result was sooo sweet!…I never imagined with a digital (numeric!) mixer to have this kind of result!
    So…very, very happy till now and – ah!, dimenticavo – naturally no trace of noise in the P.A.
    Great! Cya soon, Angelo Cannarile[:D]

    iLive T112 -FW 1.63 – IDR48

    #25654

    Used in a large show with a 24 line-array system + 20 mono 18″ sub: astounding! decisely no noise on preamps in normal operation

    iLive T112 -FW 1.63 – IDR48

    #25759

    Ok, another matter…2 days ago I was in a great hotel, doing a live for Amalia Grè. I had laptop and iDR. She had an SM58. I padded, raised the gain till 45 (PADDED, I repeat). The noise was so high she report me about that. So I unpadded, raise down till 25 the gain…and the noise disappeared. Is it still normal?
    [V]

    iLive T112 -FW 1.63 – IDR48

    #25768
    Profile photo of Albin
    Albin
    Participant

    Why do you want to push the PAD first and then raise the gain 45db??? Can you tell me why you do that?

    #25770

    When I recall the basic show, any IP is already padded.
    So, being in a great hurry, I recalled the basic show, and then raised up gain till 0dB(by editor, no surface).
    But why, is there any prob if I do this way? Basically, I want to feel free to do anything, especially if I’m in a great hurry. And generally, on an analog consolle, I always got no probs if I had to do that way.

    iLive T112 -FW 1.63 – IDR48

    #25774
    Profile photo of schaibaa
    schaibaa
    Participant

    Naturally the pad will raise the noise floor by the value of the pad, 30db in this case. This is because whatever noise was there prior to applying the pad will be raised 30db when you engage the pad and then add 30db of preamp.

    The pad is very important – not to be disregarded. My system doesn’t make much noise, but if you have a noisy bass guitar on a DI and pad the input, then have to crank the pre – then you will get some noise. Pads are tools that should be used only if necessary. This would be true on any console, though – and not specific to the iLive.

    #25776

    Thanks for the advice. I think the way you think, about the pad. You can’t imagine how many times, say a day yes and the other no, in 15 years, the pad saved my life[:D]
    So told, I had 3 channels: 2 piano ch, both 414, 1 vox, sm58. When noise occurred, changed instantly the cable (even if, at my ears, was not the cable…everyone here knows what he hears when you have an unsoldered cable). And the problem, naturally, was not there. I solved as I told you any posts ago.
    So, why can we hear noise on a padded 45 dB well patched, cabled and miced ch?
    That’s my tormento.
    Cya all
    plus…
    the pad, analogically speaking, is just an attenuator, isn’t?
    Being an attenuator, it had to attenuate bohth signal and (eventually) noise coming with the signal, isn’t? so, renewing my tormento: why, if I pad and raise to 45db, or unpad and raise 45 dB, the same signal-to-noise ratio? that’s it..
    iLive T112 -FW 1.63 – IDR48

    #25800

    No one out there can reply me plz?

    iLive T112 -FW 1.63 – IDR48

    #25801
    Profile photo of schaibaa
    schaibaa
    Participant
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