Using Rolls PM351 personal monitor?

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This topic contains 11 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of gravyface gravyface 3 years, 11 months ago.

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  • #65692
    Profile photo of jamesonefive
    jamesonefive
    Participant

    I need to set up two Rolls PM351 for IEM.

    Using a QU-24 to AR2412 to PM351 via XLR.
    The mix will be the same in both units. Just want it to sound like whatever is in the house. No need to adjust individually. Once it’s set it will pretty much be left alone with only volume adjusted for IEM purposes. Individual mics and instruments will be routed through the PM351 back to the AR2412 and can be blended with the main monitor mix.

    What is the correct way to do this? I have very little experience with the QU-24.
    On another mixing board I would do this via the aux send.

    Thanks for your help!

    #65693
    Profile photo of Bear
    Bear
    Participant

    You could go to setup / dsnake out / and change one of the output as L&R .

    #65695
    Profile photo of jamesonefive
    jamesonefive
    Participant

    Thank you, I’ll give this a try.

    #65702
    Profile photo of [XAP]Bob
    [XAP]Bob
    Participant

    If they are actually IEM then drop them onto a Mix each, have whoever is listening use QuYou on a phone/tablet to help set their mix.

    FOH doesn’t often make a good monitor mix.

    #65708
    Profile photo of jamesonefive
    jamesonefive
    Participant

    Thank you, my biggest problem is how to get the signal to the IEM. I’m very new to using the QU-24.

    How do I program the mixer to send a monitor mix to an our channel?
    I know this is super basic but I’m having trouble finding the instructions.

    Thank you.

    #65709
    Profile photo of MarkPAman
    MarkPAman
    Participant

    It all in here!
    http://www.allen-heath.com/media/Qu-Mixer-Reference-Guide-AP9372_9.pdf

    If it were me, I’d connect outputs 1 & 2 of the AR box to the line inputs of the two Rolls (you’ll need an XLR > TRS cable for each)
    These are by default the mix 1 & Mix 2 outputs of the mixer.

    Then if you’re sure you want something like the main mix as monitors (not how it’s usually done), set all the Mix 1 & @ sends to be post fade (page 22), and bring all the faders up to 0 for mix one and two. The master for each mix needs to be up too – start low & bring it up to get the correct volume. You’ll now have the same mix to each Rolls as FOH. If something seems to quiet in your monitor, but is correct for FOH, then you can notch its fader up in the appropriate mix. Obviously you can notch them down too! Remember that any change made to FOH levels will also be heard in the monitors (which is why it’s more normal to have monitors on pre fade sends and only bring up what’s needed).

    Outputs 11 & 12 from the AR box will be Left & Right by default.

    #65711
    Profile photo of MarkPAman
    MarkPAman
    Participant

    Correction!

    I typed this one but it’s gone! So shorter version…..

    Input of Rolls is unbalanced mono or stereo (with a switch) which seems an odd choice given it’s intended use. 🙁

    You’ll need to get your soldering iron out!

    Do you want a mono or stereo mix?

    #65712
    Profile photo of MarkPAman
    MarkPAman
    Participant

    This may be useful too:

    http://www.rolls.com/pdf/M_PM351.pdf

    So, for mono, you need to sort of make lead number 3 from here:
    http://www.rane.com/note110.html
    BUT, because of the powering arrangement in the Rolls, you’ll need to use a TRS jack with the ring left unconnected.

    For stereo it’s two XLRs to one TRS, with pin 2 left connected to tip, and pin 2 right to the ring. Both pin 1 go to the screen/shield.

    #65713
    Profile photo of jamesonefive
    jamesonefive
    Participant

    Ok so here’s some details to clarify. The part of the IEM using the rolls equipment I got down.
    It’s just I’m not clear on how to correctly get a signal from the board to IEM units.

    What I’m actually doing is this –

    I’m going to install 2ea Rolls PS16 which will accept a TRS balanced input. From there I’m branching out via TRS to the Rolls PM351.
    Will be using 4ea PM351’s from one PS16 and 3ea from the other.

    https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/288018-REG/Rolls_PS16_PS16_Personal_Monitor_Power.html

    https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/410927-REG/Rolls_PM351_PM351_Personal_Monitor_Station.html

    Sorry for the confusion, all your help is super appreciated.

    I just want to make sure I correctly program an out from the mixer to the balanced in on the PS16.

    This is my one main issue. Seems like there should be a simple solution but it eludes me.

    Thanks again!

    #65728
    Profile photo of MarkPAman
    MarkPAman
    Participant

    From the desk, you have the option of a balanced TRS output from the Alt out, which can be set as a mono mix of L+R. But I’m guessing that it’s a long way from the PS16.

    From the AR box you only have XLRs available. Leads to run from those to your TRS balanced input are relatively common (number 2 in the Rane guide). The XLRs on the box can carry any output you care to route to them so there’s several ways this could work. I’d pick Mix One (should already be routed to AB output one), and proceed as I suggested in my first post, above. So as you say in your first post, you’re doing it via an Aux send, but on the Qu they’re called Mix sends!

    I agree with Bob though, you seem to be adding a lot of extra equipment & leads to achieve something the Qu-You app does rather well.

    Qu-You

    #65741
    Profile photo of jamesonefive
    jamesonefive
    Participant

    Perfect, yes Mix Send that’s what I was looking for. So I can program a mix send to any out on the AR.

    And yes, we are using in ears with live instruments on stage. What I’m doing with the PM351 is allowing for each IEM to be able to blend the main monitor mix with their own mic/instrument.

    I’m also aware of the Qu-You app however since this is a church and I’m trying to keep each team member from isolating themselves in their heads I’m forcing them to all listen to the band as a whole and adjust themselves within the mix for their ears only. The PM351 will allow the line and two instruments or mics.

    I’m keeping it very much a live band feel with the in ears as a way to hear each other through the live instruments, guitar amps, drums, etc.

    My goal has been to find a system that combines what I love about a live band with real amps and instruments on stage with all the benefits of an IEM system for monitoring ourselves and each other. I’m basically treating the IEM’s like wedges without the negatives of added stage noise.

    Quiet stages with all audio FOH is a little sterile to me. However loud monitor mixes on top of the instruments can sound like a mess easily.

    I’m going to to install after work today.

    I’ll take some pics and show you all what I did and how it works. Maybe you can point out any errors on my part.

    Thanks again!

    #66007
    Profile photo of gravyface
    gravyface
    Participant

    I have a Qu-24 as well.

    I went with the Behringer PowerPlay P1 units: cheap, durable, with lots of clean gain (never had them past 12 o’clock), are threaded so can mount on a mic stand (or use the belt clip) and most of all, have 2 XLR inputs, so can use existing snakes and/or mic cables, plus an added bonus of stereo if I want it.

    As a nice touch, it takes the same juice as a pedal board, so you can run a power extension cord off their pedal board PSU (or use a 9V).

    I run all this straight off of the XLR outputs of Mix 5/6, 7/8, 9/10 (we’re a three piece) and use mono Mix 1/2/3/4 for any other musicians that come by (those just go into a Behringer HA4700 PowerPlay).

    I picked up some super cheap Lenovo Android tablets (like 25 bucks each, refurbed) that only have the Qu-You app on them and pre-configured each Mix the first time around, one-on-one, and gave them a tour of how to use it (pretty dead simple: couple of big “wheel” faders for each group of instruments, labelled “me” and then whatever else the others are playing, like “drums”, “guitar”, “bass”, “vocals”).

    For tweaks, I run the Qu-Pad app on an iPad Mini, which allows me to adjust specifics like “kick in” for the bass player, without cluttering up his Qu-You mix by giving him too many choices.

    Dead simple, straight line from mixer to headphone amps, no intermediary routing/mixer/cable connection switching, etc.

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