dLive vs Avantis

[Brian]

(Second attempt at posting this)

As noted above, our church may switch from a Avantis (FOH & Stream)/X32 (monitors) to a DLive (FOH & Mon) and Avantis (Streaming). I spent some times recently to really nail down my buss count and thought I would share. Obviously your situation is going to be different, but honestly I think the most important detail to consider when buying a new console is the buss/aux/matrix/fx capacity and if it meets your needs or not. Inputs are important, but it’s usually the buss capacity that you run out of first…. and buss capacity can go quick (as noted below).

DLive (FOH and Monitors) – 64 total buss count.
Outputs
– 2 PAFL
– 2 Comms with Streaming
– 2 Main (1x Stereo)
– 8 Matrix (4x Stereo) Main, subs, fill, lobby

Monitor Aux Outs
– 18 – (9x stereo) IEM
– 2 – (2x mono) wedge mixes

Groups
– 12 (6x Stereo) Groups (Drums, Drums Crush, Guitars, Keys, Vocals, Brass)
– 2 (2x Mono) Groups (Bass, Pulpit)

FX Returns
– 12 (6x Stereo) FX – Vocal Verb, Vocal Delay, Vocal Doubler, Drum Verb, Keys Verb, Band Verb

That’s 60 of the 64 total busses (leaving 4 spare) and 6 of the 16 FX racks (leaving 10 for channel inserts)

Avantis (Streaming) – 42 total buss count
Outputs
– 2 PAFL
– 2 Comms with FOH
– 2 Main (1x Stereo)
– 6 Matrix (3x Stereo) Stream Feed, Room Monitor System 1, Room Monitor System 2

Groups
– 12 (6x Stereo) Groups (Drums, Drums Crush, Guitars, Keys, Vocals, Brass)
– 2 (2x Mono) Groups (Bass, Pulpit)

FX Returns
– 12 (6x Stereo) FX – Vocal Verb, Vocal Delay, Vocal Doubler, Drum Verb, Keys Verb, Band Verb

That’s 38 of the 42 total busses (leaving 4 spare) and 6 of the 12 FX racks (leaving 6 for channel inserts)

Hopefully you can see the process I went through so that you can determine which system is going to be better for your use. For use, it proves that using two Avantis will not get us the buss count that we need.

PS – I love the fact that on both Avantis and DLive the buss architecture is completely flexible. On the SQ and QU series consoles – the buss architecture is fixed and cannot be changed. Those systems are much more limiting IMHO.

[ChopinGuy88]

Thank you again, Brian. Looking at it from this perspective our bus outputs are very minimal – 2 main (L&R) and 3 fill zones – these 5 all go to the Meyer Galileo. Then we have 4 bus outputs that run to our stage box to drive an amp for when we want to use wedges (which we rarely ever use). That’s it – a total of 9 bus outs. Our Crestron control system handles the audio splits for room zones, and we use Aviom for IEMs – so neither of those eat up anything from the console. This would leave us a whole lot of headroom on either platform.

[Brian]

Then once again I would suggest that you go with the Avantis. It is a wonderful console with much of the same processing as DLive – just less of it. Other than some newer features and FX that will eventually make it down to the Avantis, you really aren’t missing anything by going with the Avantis. I actually like the screens and GUI on the Avantis more than the DLive. In other words, there simply isn’t a use case that you have mentioned that would make it worth spending more than twice the amount of the Avantis to get a Dlive.

Good luck with your process!

[ChopinGuy88]

Objectively speaking – no doubt – there doesn’t seem to be any reason that Avantis won’t do the job. I have a feeling that dLive will still be recommended from the overall system package and support perspective. Suppose it will just come down to are we ok with the added expense of dLive once we compare the two.

[ChopinGuy88]

Gotta ask another question – with dLive being released in 2016 – should there be any concern with obsolesce if purchasing into that platform in 2022??

[Chris]

I saw where someone answered your question in the new thread, but I think you do have a valid concern as the Avantis system will probably be supported longer than dlive. That is just the nature of when these devices were released. I don’t think that is an unreasonable expectation. I also don’t think that dlive’s EOL is anytime soon either. There is something to be said for it being a more mature platform.

[ChopinGuy88]

Resurrecting this old thread to update – we decided to go with two Avantis consoles w/dPack for our solution – which will, ultimately, still be way more than we need. The only frustration is now both consoles are sitting with our contractor as the Dante cards are delayed until end of this year into 2023. Major bummer to have two consoles sitting in a warehouse unused because of accessory cards, but without them we’re dead in the water for our install.

[Brian]

At least the delay ensured that the RTA and Shure/Sennheiser wireless support had time to be added to the Avantis with the 1.20 firmware release. 😉

If you can get a A&H Gigaace card, you can connect the two consoles that way instead of Dante. Of course you would need to be able to connect a network cable directly to the two consoles without going through any switches, etc which may not be permissible depending on your network setup and access to run more wire.

Congrats on the decision however. I do think it was the right choice for your situation. You’ll love the Avantis once you can use them!

[ChopinGuy88]

Haha – you are correct Brian – I was so stoked to see when that firmware just dropped recently. Funny that’s some of the features we were talking about just 6 months ago.

I might ask our contractor about the gigaace option if it comes down to it. Our stage box and expanders still have come in either – so we’d still need to wait for those. Just can’t believe some of the delays these things are seeing still. We just had the new Crestron control and video distribution portion of the system pushed to Q2-Q3 2023, and we placed orders / contracted in February this year – crazy.

[Chris]

I second the gigace option. It does have its challenges as understanding the patching between systems through the Tie Lines will definitely stretch your brain, but once you get it, you get it.

Sorry to hear about your supply chain woes. We have had similar issues.

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