Ilive T 112 with two IDR 32 with Dante card

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This topic contains 14 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of dpnh dpnh 6 years, 5 months ago.

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  • #41012
    Profile photo of blazee1
    blazee1
    Participant

    Hello,
    My requirement was Ilive T 112 with IDR 32. Which can be upgraded to 64 channels in the future. I also need a Dante card now.
    As the IDR 32 has only one port. If i use the dante card in the Port B. When i will buy an extra IDR 32 in the future to expand it to 64 can i take off the dante card from the master IDR 32 and place it on the slave IDR 32. And fix an ACE card in order to link the both idr’s together.

    Is this the correct way. Please advice

    #41015
    Profile photo of Nicola A&H
    Nicola A&H
    Keymaster

    Hi blazee1,

    Yes, this is correct.

    #42271
    Profile photo of dpnh
    dpnh
    Participant

    Greetings guys,

    here we have:
    1x T112
    2x 32
    1x M-ACE card
    Getting Started Guide for iDR-16, 32, 48 and 64 MixRack as main reference

    Just bought the iLive system, but we get the first [BIG] disappointment last week after trying hard to setup the second iDR32 via m-ACE card we brought together with the main system, and just find out that there is no way to access the preamps for second iDR32 (SLAVE unit) in ‘Dual-Rack’ mode.
    Literally, we can’t use the second iDR32 in ‘Dual-Rack’ mode and the part which really intrigued me was right on page 10, the following note written only down there with tinny small letters:

    Note:
    • Channels 1-64 are sourced from the Master MixRack
    (Preamps cannot be mapped acrosstinnyacks).
    • Channels 65-128 are sourced from the Slave
    MixRack.
    • Surface audio can only be assigned between
    channels 1- 64 (connects to Master MixRack).
    • Each MixRack processes its own channels 1-64 or
    65-128.
    • The Master MixRack processes the 32 buses.
    • FX may be inserted on Master channels 1-64 only.
    • Channels cannot be ganged across MixRacks.
    • The Reset Network Settings recessed switch
    restores default single MixRack operation.

    That being said I have few more questions:
    – What’s the meaning of ‘Dual-Rack’ mode setup and where it can be used if the Preamps cannot be mapped acrosstinnyacks?
    Let’s say we have two iDR64 for 128 inputs channels config. in ‘Dual-Rack’ mode but can control only 64 preamps from one iDR unit in the system? That’s make no sense; where is the relevance here?
    Therefore, with Yamaha system we used before from LS9, M7 to PM5 we were able reach all the preamps linked in the (ethersound based) system. Here should not be the same?

    – At Page 3 the same guide pointed right: “Two MixRacks can be linked in Dual-Rack mode to provide 128 input channels”, but how to make it as now I’m unable to get even my 64 preamps from setup mentioned at the beginning?

    – Please advice me correct how to get connected to all of the 64 inputs / 32 outs as we have now about 50+ mixes and 26 outs.
    2x iDR32, 1x T112 surface and 1x m-ACE card can gain the preamps and processing for all 64 inputs?

    Thank you

    #42273
    Profile photo of ddff_lv
    ddff_lv
    Participant

    Not sure I understand your question. Basically you can map any of master racks physical inputs to channels 1-64 and slave racks inputs to 65-128. In your case that means if you have patched everything 1:1, your channels with XLR inputs will go like 31, 32, 65, 66.
    Do you have problem with that?

    ddff, uses dual rack time after time

    #42297
    Profile photo of dpnh
    dpnh
    Participant

    Thanks ddff,
    we got one surface console T112 and two MixRacks (2x iDR32 one with an m-ACE card fitted in MASTER unit), and I patched the inputs this way:

    1st iDR32: 1 – 32 (MASTER fitted with m-ACE) used for choir & orchestra
    2nd iDR32: 65 – 96 (SLAVE) used on stage for vocals, guitars, drums, brass, and rest of the band inputs.

    I like to use all of the 64 inputs from both iDR32 all together at once. The reason for this split is that one iDR is on stage and another about 50 meters away from stage.

    At the beginning during the first setup I tried to keep both MixRacks next to the surface console for tests and setup but cannot access the gain for preamps from second iDR.

    After patching the inputs between MixRacks, the first iDR was working nice but from second MixRack (slave) didn’t come any audio signal using a condenser mic and was because even the 48V power was off.
    I tried patching again each MixRack separate. I set 48V power state ON at each MixRack, tried to set the desired gain preamps again but when I link the system in dual-rack mode the connection becomes lost and the preamps gain become reset to the default values and the 48V power state was OFF again.
    Using dynamic mics there was signal presence but no access to gain preamps to set my mics gain levels.

    I tried the same with a laptop in AH iLive editor and there is no difference.

    #42300
    Profile photo of ddff_lv
    ddff_lv
    Participant

    Did you also bridged the network port in master rack to ACE card? If so, I’m afraid you have some technical issue there. I never had problems with control of slave racks pre, no matter how far from master rack it was. The channel 65 should operate exactly as channel 1.

    ddff

    #42302
    Profile photo of dpnh
    dpnh
    Participant

    Yes, I’ve tried everything according to ‘Getting Start Guide’ but the manual clearly states:
    ‘(Preamps cannot be mapped acrosstinnyacks)’

    ddff
    Please tell me more about your config. And how did you make it over the software limitation particularly in this instance?
    Any pictures or maybe a short video would be more than relevant. I need to hear some feedback from you guys.

    p.s. my rep. agreed that in dual-rack mode you can’t do nothing about having two iDR’s. He specified another two xDR units to expand my system to 64 inputs which means another bid and we already get two iDR in place. At the beginning there was no problem with but now we’re locked in with these software restrictions and WHY?

    #42304
    Profile photo of ddff_lv
    ddff_lv
    Participant

    It just sounds crazy. I don’t know what tinnyacks is, but my setup is simple as it could be. It’s iDR48 with ACE card in port B, a cable from ACE card to ACE port of iDR32 and a T112 surface connected to default ACE port of iDR48 (not ACE card, but onboard port). Exactly as stated in this paper: http://www.allen-heath.com/media/Understanding-Dual-Rack-Mode-in-iLive-29SEP11.pdf
    Then I have Dante card into iDR32 that gives me split to monitor desk and recording. That’s how I have 128 channels and 80 XLR inputs + all those inputs in T112 surface.
    The only limitation is I’m not able to assing inputs from iDR32 to channels 1…64. They have to start from 65. Apart from that there are no difficulties.

    ddff

    #42326
    Profile photo of ddff_lv
    ddff_lv
    Participant

    What are your network settings on all devices? Are they all in one subnet with unique IP?

    ddff

    #42330
    Profile photo of Nicola A&H
    Nicola A&H
    Keymaster

    dpnh,

    It sounds to me like you are patching the preamps from the Slave Rack back to the Master and assigning those signals to ch 33-64. As ddff points out, the Slave preamps should be patched to ch 65 and upwards. These can be then assigned anywhere on the Surface (typically to follow your channels from the Master).

    Can you confirm that you have full control including preamp gain and 48V when a Slave preamp is assigned to ch 65 and up?

    The document referenced by ddff should hopefully explain how the system works.

    #42333
    Profile photo of dpnh
    dpnh
    Participant

    It just sounds crazy. I don’t know what tinnyacks is, but...
    sorry about that. It was my mistake so here it is again from Getting Started Guide, down the notes

    Channels 1-64 are sourced from the Master MixRack 
    (Preamps cannot be mapped across MixRacks).

    Thank you very much to you both.
    Sorry, I wasn’t able to continue with the setup this weekend, but on Wednesday I will give another try. First, I want to reset both MixRacks and the Surface, then we will start over according to documentation posted by ddff here.
    I will come back with the whole story.
    Actually on Wednesday I will try to expand another T112 surface along with iDR64 and iDR32 MixRacks one fitted with m-ACE card.
    Trying with two iLive systems will give us more confidence.

    #42438
    Profile photo of dpnh
    dpnh
    Participant

    Last night we tried to make it all over again, but we have started with the iLive default presets; 7_DualRack-FOH existing in library templates.
    The whole setup was quite and soft. We follow step by step explanations from the document posted by ddff here, a real guide through whole process, helping us a lot – Thanks a lot!

    The main problem in our case was the bridge connection port on the m-ACE card. The Link 1 on port B didn’t respond properly and we didn’t get the reason for that. Even the network signal and lights at Link 1 port B was off. For this reason we pull out the cable from Link 1 (port B) and plugged it to Link 2 (port B). The system displays an error message and ask for cable to be switched back to Link 1 (port B). After few minutes the slave MixRack preamps was detected online.

    A major minus which I want to mention here is that in Dual-Rack-Mode setup I’m still unable to insert multiband processing on slave inputs from the Master Rack.
    Hope this will be improved soon with the next firmware updates. Thank you for confidence.

    #44490
    Profile photo of dpnh
    dpnh
    Participant

    There are only a few phrases about Dual-Rack Mode + ME-1 scenario (without ME-U HUB).
    In addition to configuration above we like to add one ME-1 personal mixing unit (for Drummer) but we need channels from both IDR’s simultaneously.

    Main questions:
    – what actually means “no stereo links or names”?
    – we like to feed mono or stereo channels from both iDR’s simultaneously (up to 40 channels), is that possible?
    – how many ME-1 can be installed in Dual-Rack mode setup?

    If there’s some pdf or Dual-Rack + ME-1 help files or video please let me know. Thank you!

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    #44492
    Profile photo of Nicola A&H
    Nicola A&H
    Keymaster

    Hi dpnh,

    – what actually means “no stereo links or names”?

    When ME-1 is connected directly to an ACE card (without ME-U) it only sees the audio stream. It doesn’t pick up channel names from the Cat5, nor it does understand if a pair of channels is linked in the iLive Port B outputs.

    – we like to feed mono or stereo channels from both iDR’s simultaneously (up to 40 channels), is that possible?

    Yes. Assuming your first ME-1 is fed from Link 2 on the Master Port B ACE card: you can send channels from the Master iDR to Port B 21-60 for ME-1 use; these can be a combination of MixRack Inputs / Direct Outs / Buses from the Master iDR, and Port B channels coming from the Slave iDR. To do this: on the Slave iDR, patch the required signals back to ACE; on the Master iDR, patch these same signals (Port B ACE 33-64) to the required outputs for ME-1 (Port B 21-60). Check your Port B ACE redundancy settings, you need this set to Redundancy Off – All Inputs on Link 1.

    – how many ME-1 can be installed in Dual-Rack mode setup?

    You can daisy chain as many ME-1s as you want.

    Hope this helps.

    #44493
    Profile photo of dpnh
    dpnh
    Participant

    Should I need another mACE card for my second iDR (SLAVE) or everything can be done easy and safe with my actual configuration. Now I’m using only one mACE card installed on MASTER iDR. Any help files are welcomed as well.
    Thank you.

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