System busy for >5 seconds? + scene names issue.

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This topic contains 7 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of woutert woutert 10 years, 10 months ago.

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  • #22531
    Profile photo of woutert
    woutert
    Participant

    IDR-32 (v1.70) Editor (v1.70) on PC (Athlon dualcore 64X2 3800+, 2GB memory)

    Am I the only one wondering why, every now and then, Editor shows a “System busy…” message for more than 5 seconds? What is my machine doing or what is the IDR doing? A&H: can you explain please?
    I would be very worried if my IDR would ever tell me that the “system” is so “busy” that I cannot do anything but wait…
    If it’s the editor program then I’m still worried as I was trying this on my desktop computer which should actually be powerful enough to run the program without any performance problems.

    Still, I’d like to mention that these performance problems were not present in earlier versions of the editor (in my experience). As far as I remember they started appearing in version 1.6x. That’s also when changing the selected channel started taking some time for the meters to show the right values, whereas it was almost instantaneous before (in my experience).

    Some more detail: only one Editor session was opened, on a direct cable connection to the mixrack. No other connections on the mixrack. Quality network cable used (tried with different cables, different computers, both laptops and desktops)

    (Something else, scenes seem to be kept in the IDR memory as long as no other show is loaded.
    That’s great but why are the names of the scenes not shown on a new editor session?!?
    Why not store the names of the scenes also centrally and share them amongst all users of the system?)

    Wouter
    My prayers have been heard, Dante is coming!

    #26722
    Profile photo of letmefix
    letmefix
    Participant

    I use tablet PC. I don’t have surface control. So this is my experience:

    I have seen this “system busy” message several times. Actually I wrote here once to complain about it while we were on 1.6x. I was thinking of the lousy java programming being the root of the problem. It can still be part of the problem.

    Most of the time I was able to relate this problem to my wi-fi connection.

    This is what I do to minimize the occurrence of this annoyance:

    Every time I go to a venue I scan the venue’s wi-fi traffic with this simple droid application called “wifi analyzer” and select the best rated wi-fi channel on the wi-fi router. Since I started doing this, I (almost) stopped seeing system busy messages.
    It still happened a few times here there. But I think it could be something like a momentary network congestion/packet collusion kinda thing. I’m on 1.71 and last night I saw system busy message only once which didn’t stay more than 3 seconds.

    Statistically speaking, if I place the router below head level, I see more of those messages. So I try to stick wi-fi router on top of one of the mains whenever I can.

    I also realized that dd-wrt on my router allows me to select channels 12,13,14.
    For those who live in the States, our channel range stops at channel#11.
    But my motion computing LE1700 doesn’t have any problem connecting to channels beyond 11. However my HP 2710p tablet pc refuses to see the SSID if it is beyond channel 11. I just figure it out 2 days ago.

    Having said that I still remember seeing system busy messages while I was connected with a CAT5 cable. I haven’t connected via CAT5 since September, so I cannot comment if the new firmware makes any difference.

    IDR32
    Motion computing LE1700
    Where is my DANTE & iMonitor?

    #26723
    Profile photo of Stix
    Stix
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by woutert

    (Something else, scenes seem to be kept in the IDR memory as long as no other show is loaded.
    That’s great but why are the names of the scenes not shown on a new editor session?!?
    Why not store the names of the scenes also centrally and share them amongst all users of the system?)

    Wouter
    My prayers have been heard, Dante is coming!


    Hi Wouter – You have made the assumption that a “scene” is kept in the IDR memory – but it is really just the current mixer state that is kept – which is the last recalled scene + any changes! If you adjust just one parameter since a scene recall then it is technically no longer that scene. So what we really need in editor is an indication of the LAST RECALLED SCENE

    See this discussion and Stealth’s reply:
    http://www.ilive-digital.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1123&SearchTerms=scene

    Is that what you are meaning? Or do you mean all of the scene names for an entire show should show up in editor? This would mean all show data would need to go to the editor session which would certainly be good!

    Cheers

    Richard Howey
    Audio Dynamite Ltd
    IDR48/IDR16/T112/R72

    #26734
    Profile photo of woutert
    woutert
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by Stix
    Hi Wouter – You have made the assumption that a “scene” is kept in the IDR memory – but it is really just the current mixer state that is kept


    Hi Richard,

    As far as my experience goes, the entire scenelist is really stored in the IDR’s memory. Otherwise I could not do what I’m doing now: create all the scenes for my show with the editor, then deconnect the editor and just recall all those scenes by MIDI program change.

    That means that the scene list is indeed stored in the IDR, BUT the scene NAMES do not show up on other machines then the machine where the scene list was created, and that is such a pity!! I mean, if I rename a channel we all think it’s logical that anyone sees that same channel name. It also works that way, but not with the scenes. I think somehow this was overlooked and I can only hope that it’s already on the wishlist.

    The indication of the last recalled scene was indeed also discussed in other threads and yes, this too needs to be fixed.

    greetz,
    Wouter

    #26739
    Profile photo of antonyja
    antonyja
    Participant

    quote:


    the entire scenelist is really stored in the IDR’s memory


    The scenes are stored loaclly to the “objects” they relate to. Therefore most scene information is stored in the Mix Racks scene memory, as you say. However the strip assignments are stored in the surface. For this reason we decided to store the names of the scenes in the touchscreen. If you connect a iLive Editor to the surface (as opposed to “Online Mix Rack Only”), then you will have the names available in Editor. I guess you are connecting the editor “Mix Rack Only”, in this case you have a virtual surface created with its own set of names (and strip assignments BTW). I hope that helps…

    Antony Jackson
    Software Manager
    Allen & Heath Limited

    #26748
    Profile photo of woutert
    woutert
    Participant

    quote:


    Originally posted by antonyja
    I hope that helps…

    Antony Jackson
    Software Manager
    Allen & Heath Limited


    Hello Antony, yes this explanation helps a lot. But I’d really like to propose these things:

    1 Please, please, please, please, put the scene names in the IDR.

    2. The option of separating strip assignment from the scene system and put it, at least for the editor, in a “mixer layout” file or something. OR have them stored centrally but not as scenes.

    In my case I’d propose this structure:

    SHOW
    > SCENES
    > SCENE PLAYLISTS
    >> SCENE PLAYLIST 1
    >> SCENE PLAYLIST 2
    >> SCENE PLAYLIST 3
    >> etc
    > MIXER LAYOUTS
    >> T80
    >>> Wouters FOH layout
    >>> My monitor tech’s monitor layout
    >>> Etc
    >> EDITOR
    >>> Drummer’s own monitor control layout
    >>> Wouter’s FOH Layout
    >>> My monitor tech’s monitor layout

    Is it known if a lot of users are really using strip assignment in scene, to change the strip assignment DURING a show? I would never do that I think…

    But if so, why not have every surface identify itself and using that strip assignment for the update and still store it centrally? To me, it seems it would be good to leave the route of storing things on several places and go entirely forcentral storage. I can see that there might be some advantages to not doing this but to me the advantages are more important.

    An example: I do a show with both T112 surface and editor connected.
    I’d like to be able to store the entire show on my laptop’s editor session on HD and STILL be sure that that show file also covers the setting on my T112 for instance.

    Suppose I’m a rental company and I decide to take another T112 to the show next time. I would like to be able to load the show using the editor, to start ringing out monitors and STORING THOSE NEW SETTINGS IN SOME SCENES (while my T112 is still used on another job for instance. Then later connect the T112 and be able to choose to use all settings for the T112 that are present in the show that’s already loaded in the IDR, WITHOUT HAVING TO LOAD A SHOW FILE WITH SCENES THAT ARE ALREADY OUTDATED BY NOW!!!

    This is actually a lot more important for my musicians that like to adjust their in-ears. I have a replacement drummer and want him to use the mixer layout that was already created by the previous drummer on his own laptop. I tell him to install the editor on his laptop, then open the program, connect to the IDR, and the system would ask him, if he want to connect as a certain surface, or as a new surface but starting with some mixer layout that’s stored in the show. I’d tell him: or to go ahead and use the


    “SHOW> MIXER LAYOUT> EDITOR> DRUMMER” mixer layout (or machine ID for strip assigment update DURING the show) and work with that during the show, OR (if I suppose that he might do some thing that the other drummer won’t like) to create a new layout BASED on the “DRUMMER” layout and call himself “DRUMMER2” for instance…

    Still need to do some more thinking though. These are some basic ideas. I hope this can help too :-)

    Wouter
    My prayers have been heard, Dante is coming!

    #26753
    Profile photo of antonyja
    antonyja
    Participant

    quote:


    An example: I do a show with both T112 surface and editor connected.
    I’d like to be able to store the entire show on my laptop’s editor session on HD and STILL be sure that that show file also covers the setting on my T112 for instance.

    Suppose I’m a rental company and I decide to take another T112 to the show next time. I would like to be able to load the show using the editor, to start ringing out monitors and STORING THOSE NEW SETTINGS IN SOME SCENES (while my T112 is still used on another job for instance. Then later connect the T112 and be able to choose to use all settings for the T112 that are present in the show that’s already loaded in the IDR, WITHOUT HAVING TO LOAD A SHOW FILE WITH SCENES THAT ARE ALREADY OUTDATED BY NOW!!!


    There is no problem in doing what you describe. As long as when you have the surface connected you connect editor “Online Surface and Mix Rack”, and when the surface is not available connect “Online Mix Rack Only”, with a virtual T112 surface, then you can load your show, make adjustments to the mix, and save the show – to recall when you connect the surface to the system.

    iLive is an extensible distrbuted processing system. Currently we have the option of dual Mix Racks, each of which store their own scene settings, in the future we hope to offer dual (or indeed multiple) surfaces, if we can solve the technical problems. Keeping the scene system distributed, is faster, and will allow us more flexiblity going forward.

    Antony Jackson
    Software Manager
    Allen & Heath Limited

    #26778
    Profile photo of woutert
    woutert
    Participant

    This is a very interesting topic indeed, especially when thinking about multiple mix racks.

    My experience though is that it may get confusing for the user. I mean, it really feels weird that one needs to save and restore a show when connecting a surface, whereas I always considered the show to host the basic settings of the mixer.
    It’s also very confusing that it makes a difference on which controller you restore a show. I feel it’s a bit limiting always to have to restore a show, whereas actually I just need my controller to identify itself to the mixrack.
    If I understand you correctly you can make some changes concerning the controller in the show via the editor but then you have to save the show on a USB stick, take that USB stick to the controller and recall the show on that controller?
    As I see it, I’d rather have the Mixrack ask every controller to identify itself (with a physical controller, that’s still easy at the moment as it’s only one, but that will change if I understand correctly) or in case of the virtual controllers (editors) to indicate what controller settings they want to affect/be affected by.

    Thus far, I do understand that info concerning a controller always needs to be transferred via USB stick, and moreover, not a single saved show will 100% sure contains ALL the info of that show (if people start using personal editors for in ear monitoring their strip settings are only stored on their personal machines, they might, no they will get lost, that I know upfront, they are, well we are musicians in the end, not computer scientists)

    Concerning performance, the controller could sync it’s settings with the IDR rack so that controller specific scene info is also kept in local memory as a cache memory. However when saving a show it would be so nice to know that you have ALL info concerning your show in one file, and not in several files depending on the number of controllers that you are using.
    Maybe it could be like a website/cookie system, where most of the users info is stored in the central user database of the website, but the identification goes fast as at the webclient side the basic “login” info is kept. In such a case, a user could ID himself to the Mixrack as “Wouter Tilkin laptop” and get those settings IF if in the current show there is a “Wouter Tilkin laptop” known as a used controller (just like R72, T80, T112 and so on) if not the controller will need to login using another “account” or create a new subscription to the show. On the local machine, I’d store the settings… showID–>account USED

    This even has some advantages as I could start preparing custom strips for my colleagues. I could make a “DRUMMER” custom strip assignment by logging on using a (new) “DRUMMER” account.

    Dreaming now (but seriously, I already ran into this story a couple of times!)
    Then when we start rehearsing and the drummer asks me “where the f*ck is this channel?”, I even don’t have to run to the stage, I just change account to DRUMMER (or using a delegate system :-)) ) (if I’m allowed to, I won’t let the DRUMMER touch my settings for instance) and make the change in the strip assignment, and change the editor account back to my “Wouter Tilkin laptop” account…

    Then at the end of the day I save the entire show on my laptop and on the internet storage (I don’t like using sticks all the time :-) ) and I’m sure that if the drummer forgets his own laptop tomorrow and needs to use the laptop of our scene manager….. (it DOES happen :-) ) he will still be able to get his custom strip assignment that we stored yesterday…

    So my plead remains… please please, more central storage in the IDR… please? Make the Mix rack also the Show server :-)
    If that’s out of the question then I’d plead at least the scene names to be stored centrally and offer the possibility to store a fixed custom strip assignment as a seperate file.

    The thinking goes on :-)

    PS: In fact when working with dual mix racks i would find it logical to see that one of them is the master where all info is kept, and the other one is just a slave.

    Wouter
    My prayers have been heard, Dante is coming!

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